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Need Help with a Hofner

Feb 28, 2009
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OK, I have a Hofner question. Maybe mine has a problem and maybe not. First, allow me to give you a little background. I bought a brand new prototype for their Contemporary re-issue of the 500/5. Here is a pic. I emailed Hofner of America and they confirmed that they commissioned 8 of these prototypes to be made in "Asia" and four were sold in the USA. They may be selling production models this year. It's Chinese or Indonesian made and because it is a prototype, it has no serial numbers, no documentation, no case, etc...
P1030792.jpg

The problem I have is that I suspect that the pickups are wired out-of-phase and I do not like how the volume pots cancel each other out when both pickups are "on".

I have figured out the wiring layout for the Hofner control panel (a trick in itself) and the pick ups are wired in parallel. With both pickups switched on, the volume controls on each pick up cancel each other out. The sound that I do get is very thin and tinny with significantly less volume. Let me clarify that it is passive, so "on" simply means that they are not excluded from the circuit. So with both on, I only get full volume by turning either pot completely down and turning the other pot completely up. Putting both pots to the middle position doesn't really provide a happy medium - the volume is still cut significantly.

But here is the surprising thing, each pickup has four wires plus the shielding. I didn't expect these little re-issue bar pickups to be humbucking, but I guess they are. The shielding goes to ground on both of these pickups just as it should, but from there each one is wired to their respective volume pots differently. Each pick up has leads colored Red, White, Green and Black.

On the neck pickup, the RED goes to Volume Pot, WHITE goes to Ground and BLACK & GREEN are wired together. So I assume that the coils are wired in series, thus functioning as a single humbucker.

On the bridge pickup, the GREEN goes to Volume Pot, BLACK goes to Ground and RED & WHITE are wired together. Again, I would assume that they are wired in series, but this is different from the neck pickup.

So how can know what is in-phase and what is out-of-phase? Is there a good reason to have them out-of-phase? It seems that I would get better response from them if they were in-phase, but I really don't know that they are or are not. I don't have a soldering iron, so experimentation is not in the picture just yet. I thought I would pick some brains before deciding to make further investments in tools that will rarely get used.
 
I can think of 2 things:

Thing 1: You might want to change the wiring on one of the pickups to match the other and see what happens...you can always change it back.

Yes, I hate to start down this path, but I'm afraid you may be right. I'm hoping maybe a true Hofnerfile might come along that has dealt with this kind of thing before. The thing is, I have tried other Hofners such as the 500/1 in the stores and the pickups did not have this cancellation issue. But then again, those had the staple pickups with the wider spacing, so maybe that could have made a difference. Maybe someone else with a Hofner CT 500-1 wouldn't mind taking a look under the hood for me to see how their pickups are wired in.

Thing 2: I want one.

Heh, yea, I love this thing. I get some "lovely" tone with the round wounds that came with it. I'd like to try out some tape wounds, but I really don't even want to mess with it as it is. That being the case, maybe I can live with the cancellation issue, but I can't help but wonder if it should be working this way or if it was done in error.
 
The problem I have is that I suspect that the pickups are wired out-of-phase and I do not like how the volume pots cancel each other out when both pickups are "on".
This sounds like a problem I had with a Japanese Stratocaster copy, that was given away with an amplifier.
I have figured out the wiring layout for the Hofner control panel (a trick in itself) and the pick ups are wired in parallel. With both pickups switched on, the volume controls on each pick up cancel each other out. The sound that I do get is very thin and tinny with significantly less volume. Let me clarify that it is passive, so "on" simply means that they are not excluded from the circuit. So with both on, I only get full volume by turning either pot completely down and turning the other pot completely up. Putting both pots to the middle position doesn't really provide a happy medium - the volume is still cut significantly.
First of all, I have never tinkered with Hofner electronics because there was no need to do so. What I did do is fit an old Hofner 512 pickup into an Ibanez EB3 copy. I checked out some Hofner diagrams before I started that job. Something must be wired wrong in your Hofner, or maybe some wires are making contact where they shouldn't.
Höfner2.jpg

I've made this diagram, it's for 511 pickups, but your 500/5 probably has the same set up. Some resistor and capacitor values may differ.
But here is the surprising thing, each pickup has four wires plus the shielding. I didn't expect these little re-issue bar pickups to be humbucking, but I guess they are. The shielding goes to ground on both of these pickups just as it should, but from there each one is wired to their respective volume pots differently. Each pick up has leads colored Red, White, Green and Black.
Parallel.jpg
Series.jpg


On the neck pickup, the RED goes to Volume Pot, WHITE goes to Ground and BLACK & GREEN are wired together. So I assume that the coils are wired in series, thus functioning as a single humbucker.

On the bridge pickup, the GREEN goes to Volume Pot, BLACK goes to Ground and RED & WHITE are wired together. Again, I would assume that they are wired in series, but this is different from the neck pickup.

So how can know what is in-phase and what is out-of-phase? Is there a good reason to have them out-of-phase? It seems that I would get better response from them if they were in-phase, but I really don't know that they are or are not. I don't have a soldering iron, so experimentation is not in the picture just yet. I thought I would pick some brains before deciding to make further investments in tools that will rarely get used.

Check out the pictures for series and parallel wiring. The colors can be different, I guess you can figure out the difference between parallel and series with those.

A friend brought his EKO 12 string to me, to fix the electronics, he'd replaced the original DeArmond pickups for DiMarzio humbuckers, but wasn't really happy with their sound, so I replaced the electronics for standard DiMarzio series wiring and capacitor values. I made a diagram of the former wiring, because it could be of use.
Something in what your describing sounds similar, so i'll add the diagram to have a look at.
EKOdiagramDA.jpg


If this doesn't help, bring the bass to a professional, it's probably worth fixing. Good luck.
 
Wow Stempelloos, thanks for putting so much thought into your response.

Actually, I was looking at your diagram of the Dimarzio series wiring for the humbuckers when I got this realization. I realized that the coils on the humbuckers are wired in series and in phase. Even Hofner wouldn't wire humbucker coils out of phase on one pickup. So at this point, switching the leads doesn't make a difference as long as black/green stay paired and red/white stay paired. The current still flows through both coils in relatively the same manner - same direction.

Now, if I paired Black/White and Red/Green or Green/White and Black/Red then I would have either out-of-phase coils or one live coil and one dummy coil. I think I got that right, but this is just talking about the coils within the humbuckers.

OK, so now that I have the above clear in my head, here is THE question - when both humbuckers are on, could they be out of phase with each other? I understand that the way to check that would be to swap the hot & ground leads on one of the pickup connections to its volume pot.

OK, I think that is it. Someone just chime in if that needs a correction.

Mike Bass - you had that Landscape bass ...and you let it go. tsk, tsk....:scowl: I can't believe that I will ever let this one go. BUT, I will keep you in mind if I ever do.
 
I know this is an old thread but Im having the same issues, sounds like my pups are nasel out of phase in any postion and the dang on off is reversed :(
Nice Stuart Sutcliffe bass! Did you figure it out? ehhhh 6 years ago :/
 
Have you tried adjusting the pickup heights? They're very sensitive to adjustment. Other than that, I don't have any good ideas for the issue you're experiencing.

As for the on-off, they're not actually reversed; it just seems like it (unless your bass was modded at some point and actually is wired backwards.) Bass On puts a .1uF cap with an 8.2K resistor parallel to the neck pickup, like a tone control turned most of the way down. In the process (which is why the on-off seems backwards), it switches off the bridge pickup. Treble On puts a .01uF cap in series with the bridge pickup, which acts as a high pass filter, cutting bass. And in the process, the neck pickup is switched off. Rhythm cuts the overall volume to 70% by introducing a couple of resistors.
 
Have you tried adjusting the pickup heights? They're very sensitive to adjustment. Other than that, I don't have any good ideas for the issue you're experiencing.

As for the on-off, they're not actually reversed; it just seems like it (unless your bass was modded at some point and actually is wired backwards.) Bass On puts a .1uF cap with an 8.2K resistor parallel to the neck pickup, like a tone control turned most of the way down. In the process (which is why the on-off seems backwards), it switches off the bridge pickup. Treble On puts a .01uF cap in series with the bridge pickup, which acts as a high pass filter, cutting bass. And in the process, the neck pickup is switched off. Rhythm cuts the overall volume to 70% by introducing a couple of resistors.
mine is Asian Contemporary, Im not even sure its an actual Hofner, it has the blocks on the inside and looks right, no neck binding, which I think the real one has and I prefer no binding, I got it for $190, Im not complaining lol, it has a printed circuit board, I just took the pots off and reversed the control plate board so at least off is off lol, who knows whats up, I got it to sound less nasal sounding playing with the amp, its kinda jacked up but Im getting a good tone, I really need some Labellas on it, Im using Daddarios and it is a little to bright unless you cut all the trebs off the amp. sorry for the high jack :/
 
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All's well that ends well, then. Sounds like you have an Ignition, not a Contemporary, by the way. La Bellas will sound great.
its probably a fake Hofner but its made well, its Chinese, prob came out of the same factory just not offical, has the block under the bridge and between the pups, I was thinking the Contemps hasd that and the Ignitions are hollow? its a bit confusing lol, I prefer to have a more stable top, Ive had Hofners, real and fakes, I had a Dillion Beatle that I wish I hadnt got rid of it was nice.
 
Odd--you're right, the Ignitition is normally fully hollow. But the Ignition has a circuit board, whereas the CT doesn't. Might be some sort of knock off...? As far as I understand it, most inexpensive violin basses are made at the same factory or two, which is why they're generally quite similar. The CT is built at the Chinese Hofner factory (owned and run by Hofner).
 
yeah who knows what it is its a Hobner or Knobler lol, like I said theyre all made in China, unless you have a German made Hofner theyre all fake to me. heres some pcs, I took those crap knobs off, I need some teacups sorry for the hijacking.
22546971_521952984805062_661959828_o.jpg
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