Need help with live sound

[mr_flood]

I recently got back into playing and am performing every Sunday at church. I own an SR500 and a GK MB115. We play in a middle school auditorium. Currently I am using my amp as a 'monitor' and using its DI out for the house PA but I am completely unsatisfied with what I am hearing and don't know what I should do about it.

When I'm playing at home or alone on stage I love my sound, have it dialed in just the way I want it to be but as soon as the band starts playing I hate it. Anything I play on the 'D' and 'G' strings is completely lost, can't hear them at all. Notes on the 'A' string are at least audible, but not all the way there. The only thing I can hear clearly is the 'E' string.

Another fear I have is that the audience can't hear me at all, it's one of the reasons I'm using my own amp on stage rather than straight to a DI box. I sat in the audience for years watching the old bass player hammer away on his guitar only to hear almost nothing come from it through the PA. And because I have my amp on stage with me, they don't put me in the monitors.

Basically I'm at my wits end, I have no idea what I can do to solve these multiple issues.

 

[Joe Louvar]

I recently got back into playing and am performing every Sunday at church. I own an SR500 and a GK MB115. We play in a middle school auditorium. Currently I am using my amp as a 'monitor' and using its DI out for the house PA but I am completely unsatisfied with what I am hearing and don't know what I should do about it.

When I'm playing at home or alone on stage I love my sound, have it dialed in just the way I want it to be but as soon as the band starts playing I hate it. Anything I play on the 'D' and 'G' strings is completely lost, can't hear them at all. Notes on the 'A' string are at least audible, but not all the way there. The only thing I can hear clearly is the 'E' string.

Another fear I have is that the audience can't hear me at all, it's one of the reasons I'm using my own amp on stage rather than straight to a DI box. I sat in the audience for years watching the old bass player hammer away on his guitar only to hear almost nothing come from it through the PA. And because I have my amp on stage with me, they don't put me in the monitors.

Basically I'm at my wits end, I have no idea what I can do to solve these multiple issues.

Adjust/set the EQ on your amp within the band setting - and ask whoever is operating the PA why there is no bass in the mains. Good luck.

 

[schecter5string]

First off, practice tone and live tone are different animals.
For you live tone try bumping up your mids. This can help you hear yourself on stage, what sounds middy and not that pleasant by itself works well live.
As far as the front of the house,have a buddy listen, can he hear you? If yes problem solved, if not time to talk the the person running the board about the problem.

 

[two fingers]

Well, here's the first thing to consider. Quite often, a tone that sounds good in your house will sound awful (if it is heard at all) in a mix. This (of course) is not always the case, but usually is.

You need to find some good low mids to cut through a mix. The bass being "felt" is the job of the PA, not your stage rig/tone. You should start from flat during sound check. Have the band play a little part of a piece. Then stop the band and ask the SOUND GUY what he needs from you to cut through. Many churches have AWFUL sound guys. They know absolutely nothing about PA equipment, mixing a band, EQs, compressors, or anything else. Their one desirable quality is that they agreed to do it for free. Even if your sound guy is great, you need to have a CONVERSATION with him. Tell HIM what you have told US. Everything should come together from that point.

 

[jaywa]

I have observed a pretty strong anti-bass bias in a lot of churches. Not against bassists per se but people in the congregation start getting really antsy when there's too much low end. To a lot of people "volume" = "bass" and so when people start complaining the mix is too loud or the SPL meter spikes over whatever the church's "limit" is, guess what gets pulled out first? It also seems like whenever there is "howl" or low-end feedback the knee jerk response is to pull out the bass and sometimes it never gets put back in... even if that wasn't the source of the problem in the first place. It's OK (in fact, expected) to see a bassist on stage... but whether you hear him/her is a whole different thing.

The other thing I've experienced is a lot of church sound guys don't know how to EQ the mix to make room for the bass guitar relative to the kick drum and the low end of keyboards and guitars. Rather than punchy and articulated, the bass (when heard) is this soft cushy mush.... more like the bass pedals on an organ... which may be what church sound guys are more accustomed to hearing. I am fortunate to serve in a church with a great P.A. and a (new) cast of sound techs who "get" how to mix bass... but it has been over 10 years in the making.

Patience, persistence and tact will get you farther in this situation than anything else.

 

[jmclearnon]

swap positions with another band member and see if you can hear each other. Pretty much does the job

 

[praisegig]

I've fought that battle for a while in our new sanctuary, but because of the acoustics and shape of the stage, my amp was bouncing off the back wall when I had enough volume to hear the bass notes clearly. Fighting all the other monitors, it was impossible I went to headphones to hear what I'm doing. I use an aux mix feed for FOH mixer into a Rolls PM351 into my headphones, until the church can afford to get an IEM system installed

 

[mr_flood]

You guys have really helped me with some fantastic recommendations, especially the one about having a conversation with the sound guy, never thought of that one, lol.

 

[bertbass666]

You don't have ears on your knees, try tilting the cab back a bit.

 

[extreme]

Okay, basically gymnasiums are horrible. Most church sound guys aren't sure what to do, and most players are overplaying and playing too thick of sounds and chords, so it muddies up the entire mix. You have your work cut out for you.

So, just relax and try to have fun and stay positive. One thing to try would be turning your gain and volume knobs all the way up, turning the bass knob all the way down, and then slowly bringing the bass knob up to where you've got a comfortable volume. Also, see if the whole group is willing to bring their volumes down to try to get better control of the space. The sound guy may need to actually roll off the lows on the bass channel and bring up some low mids (maybe 180-240 Hz?). Try it. Feel free to experiment...you might find a sweet spot somewhere else...500 Hz, 800 Hz.

The head sound guy at our church just "resigned". He was a control freak that was admittedly tone deaf with significant high-end hearing loss. His idea of mixing was to pump the subs way up and then dial in lots of sizzle on everything. He would constantly boost around 1.6 kHz on the bass channel, which is just a nasty thing to do, but he couldn't hear it. He would often have the bass channel completely clipping through the mains and he couldn't tell. I started a mini WWIII by unplugging my D.I. one morning before playing a mellow song for communion because the bass sound in the house was so distorted. The first week after he was gone everything sounded great...we told the guy helping out with sound to just leave the channels set flat and not run the subs too hot.

So, just sayin' I've been through all kinds of stuff at all sorts of churches. Just try to do your best at what you're doing and don't let things out of your control get the best of you...easier said than done sometimes, but yeah...keep the faith!