I've recently upgraded my head from a behringer 3000 to a Hartke lh1000 watt head thinking it would solve my problem of not being heard in the mix I'm playing with a drummer and a gutairist who has a 4x12 100watt marshall stack with lots of distortion we play punk hard rock stuff. The Hartke head is going into my 8ohm Hartke 4x10xl series 400 watt and although it sounds much better with much more head room it's still too quite against them is the only option left to get another 4x10 8ohm cab?
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Need more power?
- Thread starter Isaac879695
- Start date
How is your eq set? Push the mids if you're not already doing so.
Are you using an overdrive? A tiny bit of drive goes a long way towards being heard in a mix.
Where is your cab? If it's on the floor, see if you can raise it up closer to your ears.
I'm not saying another cab won't help, (it definitely will, more speakers as opposed to more watts will give you more volume,) but there are other steps to take before spending money on a new cab.
Edit: First of all, tell your guitarist to turn down
Are you using an overdrive? A tiny bit of drive goes a long way towards being heard in a mix.
Where is your cab? If it's on the floor, see if you can raise it up closer to your ears.
I'm not saying another cab won't help, (it definitely will, more speakers as opposed to more watts will give you more volume,) but there are other steps to take before spending money on a new cab.
Edit: First of all, tell your guitarist to turn down
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Hi Isaac879695 
Do you talk about FOH mix? Or stage mix? Or rehearsals, jams…?
Different situations => different solutions!
Place your speakers closer to ear level. (your guitarist has to do that too!)
You both will hear "yourselves" better.
Eqs and filters (HPF) are your friends! Especially when you want to create that loud "wall of sound"!
They help you to reduce frequency "overlap" between guitar and bass
and can reduce the "mud and boom" that you get in certain rooms.
And of course, fire the drummer!
may the bass be with you
Wise(b)ass
Do you talk about FOH mix? Or stage mix? Or rehearsals, jams…?
Different situations => different solutions!
Place your speakers closer to ear level. (your guitarist has to do that too!)
You both will hear "yourselves" better.
Eqs and filters (HPF) are your friends! Especially when you want to create that loud "wall of sound"!
They help you to reduce frequency "overlap" between guitar and bass
and can reduce the "mud and boom" that you get in certain rooms.
And of course, fire the drummer!
may the bass be with you
Wise(b)ass
Nowadays, most music stores will repair hearing damage free of charge. You need two 8x10 cabs, and the guitar player should get another 100 watt head to power an additional 4x12 cab. That will make everything clear and perfectly audible. The secret is to make everything louder than everything else.
I'm kidding, of course. You are setting yourself up for permanent, irreversible hearing damage. Permanent. Irreversible. Run, Forrest, run.
Buy an SPL meter. Read and heed the OSHA occupational noise exposure standards. When you are really old (around 35 years of age), you'll thank me.
I'm kidding, of course. You are setting yourself up for permanent, irreversible hearing damage. Permanent. Irreversible. Run, Forrest, run.
Buy an SPL meter. Read and heed the OSHA occupational noise exposure standards. When you are really old (around 35 years of age), you'll thank me.
Here's the specs on the LH1000:
Dual Parallel mode 2 x 225 watts @ 8 ohms , 2 x 320 watts @ 4 ohms, 2 x 545 watts @ 2 ohms Bridge mode 1 x 750 watts @ 8 ohms , 1 x 1100 watts @ 4 ohm
Which configuration are you using?
Riis
Dual Parallel mode 2 x 225 watts @ 8 ohms , 2 x 320 watts @ 4 ohms, 2 x 545 watts @ 2 ohms Bridge mode 1 x 750 watts @ 8 ohms , 1 x 1100 watts @ 4 ohm
Which configuration are you using?
Riis
More power is almost never the answer to cutting through in a mix. You need to tweek your EQ. More than likely try boosting your mids.
And buy some earplugs. Or better yet get a new guitarist who isn't trying to compensate for something.
And buy some earplugs. Or better yet get a new guitarist who isn't trying to compensate for something.
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The solution is for your guitar player to grow up, use a 1x12, because that's all any guitar needs for stage volume, and let the PA cover the room. If he really needs an oversized rig to impress the kiddies it should look like this:
1. The Hartke 410xl is a really weak cab - you need more power here. When your guitar player plays loudly with the 412, there is no chance for you to "compete".
2. Make that the 412 is faced to the guitar players head and not yours.
3. How's your EQ set? Since it's a passive fender stack, start with 2-10-2 (lines, not hours).
2. Make that the 412 is faced to the guitar players head and not yours.
3. How's your EQ set? Since it's a passive fender stack, start with 2-10-2 (lines, not hours).
I strongly agree with what others have said. There is absolutely no reason your rig should not be sufficient. One of three things is happening 1) your EQ needs adjusted so it stands out in the mix more, 2) your guitarist is playing WAY TOO LOUD!!! or 3) your hearing has already been permanently damaged from playing in this band and you are no longer capable of hearing yourself. My money is on number 2.
Everyone has said turn the guitar down. An easy theory, but guitarists are hard headed, and by and large not terribly bright. Things to try- Put a plexi baffle in front of the 4x12. Plexi sheets are expensive, so making one doesn't really save any money, just go to the music store. Turn the 4x12 into the wings (or at the wall next to him.) Tilt the 4x12 towards the ceiling. You didn't hear this from me- Beating the guitar player senseless after every gig sometimes works.
- Feb 12, 2006
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It's quite possible that you are simply asking more of that 410 than it can reasonably deliver.
Other than that, a highpass filter might help a bit, as will getting the speakers closer to your ears BUT this also gets you closer to long term hearing damage (something I strongly discourage for seemingly obvious reasons)
Other than that, a highpass filter might help a bit, as will getting the speakers closer to your ears BUT this also gets you closer to long term hearing damage (something I strongly discourage for seemingly obvious reasons)
I just make them point their cab at their ears. Every time I've done this, they get the point as they wince at the volume of the first power chord beamed at their ears.
+1 to starting with a high pass filter. If it doesn't solve your volume issue at least you will sound better. Band tone is different than bedroom tone so play with your eq, lower bass, more mids sometimes helps.
Turn down. When the guitar says he can't hear you, tell him it's because he is deaf. I'd say earplugs, AND a helmet are in order in any case.
A bridged LH1000 it is rated for 750W at 8 ohms or 1,100W at 4 ohms. Be careful as this is more power than one or two 410XLs are rated for.
More power is not always the answer. Basically to get a noticeable difference in SPL (3dB), you need to double the power. However, you don't always get 3dB when you feed a speaker twice the wattage because power compression increases as the speaker is pushed near it's limits. So the difference between feeding a 410XL 200W and 400W may verge on being imperceptible.
IMHO, adding a second identical 410XL is a better solution if you need volume. Since your amp can supply more power than a pair of 410XLs are rated for, you can assume approximately 6dB of extra SPL will be gained from adding the second cab. Additionally, stacking the cabs vertically will get the top cab up closer to your ears so you can hear it better.
The extra 6dB only occurs for the frequency range in which the drivers are within about 1/4 wavelength of each other. So basically the low end will be fuller and have more headroom.
Yeah, there is no victory here. You can add another 410 and push right up there with your guitarist, but I can guarantee you that he’ll turn up as soon as you do, and the volume war starts. Next thing you know, everyone’s pissed because its a constant competition, and you never get a gig because you make everyone deaf.
Ask your guitarist to TRY using just one side of his Marshall 412.
The reduced comb-filtering will help him hear himself better, and he might turn down as a result.
It’ll remove a lot of the low-end clutter from your rehearsal room mix too, so you won’t have to work so hard to be audible.
The reduced comb-filtering will help him hear himself better, and he might turn down as a result.
It’ll remove a lot of the low-end clutter from your rehearsal room mix too, so you won’t have to work so hard to be audible.
What? What was that you said??? I couldn't quite hear you. Actually I can hear you, just can't understand what you're saying because above 3K, my hearing takes a
.Yeah, that because of playing too loud for too long. I'm an old fart but most of my hearing loss was when I did the three years of touring playing 5-nights a week, 50-weeks a year (nightclubs) in my early 20's. Started out with a reasonably loud amp and then got an ungodly one for the last 2½-years. Got it because...wait for it...the guitar player and the keyboards both got 4x12 Vox amps and buried my '66 Bassman. Bought my Standel and was never buried again, but now I wear hearing aids so I can understand what you're saying or watch TV without turning it all the way up.
The moral of the story is...don't following in my footsteps...I stepped in something.
