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Need Replacement / Upgrade Speaker Suggestions for an Ampeg 410

A

andy2108

Nov 26, 2010
16
0
#1
So Ive got an Ampeg B410HLF B-series 410 cab rated for 400 watts at 4 ohms. It was made by SLM Electronics and Im not sure exactly how old it is (bought used). The speakers are SLM and probably 100 watts... Their 4 ohms I know that. Id like to replace and/or upgrade my speakers.

I just bought a lightly used Ampeg SVT-7PRO at Guitar Center for $450 after a 15% Black Friday deal. Its being shipped and will be her late next week.

The SVT-7PRO runs 1000 watts at 4ohms, or 600 watts at 8 ohms. Id like to keep the cab 4ohms, so the speakers will have to remain 4 ohms. Id also like to match or closely match the output of the SVT-7PRO with about 200x4 or 250x4 watts of handling at 4 ohms.

For sound, Im looking for a pretty rounded out sound, capable of playing lots of different kinds of music - preferably and "american" sound, so something more like Eminence and less like Celestion? My band can best be described as Alternative, but our lead guitarist is always talking about wanting "that punk sound" from me.... basically something of the american variety.

Im not very consearned with weight...

Im not too familiar with the options out there outside of the big names like Celestion and Eminence.

Here are my theoretical requirements: 10" bass guitar speaker, 200+ (250 ideal) watts @ 4ohms ea., "american" sound i guess, reasonable cost...

I'd like to keep the cost at or below my max of $100, any more than that is going to be difficult to justify. Ideal cost of ~$75 seem fair?

Thanks TB!

EDIT: Cab is ported and roughly 3.64 cu.ft. volume.
 
#3
andy2108 said:
I'd like to keep the cost at or below my max of $100, any more than that is going to be difficult to justify. Ideal cost of ~$75 seem fair?
Click to expand...
Per driver? Certainly not for all four.
In any event, chances are slim to none that you'll get a significantly better result with different drivers. As for the power rating, moot. What matters is the driver displacement, and the stock Ampeg drivers are very good in that respect. You can find 500 watt rated drivers that won't work as well.
 
#4
What amp did you have and why didn't you like it?

In general higher powered drivers gain you low end extension at the cost of lower efficiency and less high end. You'll need those extra watts to make them as loud as the original drivers. I had a 100 watt rig that was loud as #$%^ pushing two Ampeg 'fridges. If what you want is more volume you'd be better off getting another of the same cab you have now and running them in series off that big amp - or better yet sell it and buy a used 4 ohm 'fridge (8x10).
 
#5
billfitzmaurice said:
Per driver? Certainly not for all four.
In any event, chances are slim to none that you'll get a significantly better result with different drivers. As for the power rating, moot. What matters is the driver displacement, and the stock Ampeg drivers are very good in that respect. You can find 500 watt rated drivers that won't work as well.
Click to expand...

Yes, per driver. When you mention driver displacement, what do you mean by that?

Roadkill said:
What amp did you have and why didn't you like it?

In general higher powered drivers gain you low end extension at the cost of lower efficiency and less high end. You'll need those extra watts to make them as loud as the original drivers. I had a 100 watt rig that was loud as #$%^ pushing two Ampeg 'fridges. If what you want is more volume you'd be better off getting another of the same cab you have now and running them in series off that big amp - or better yet sell it and buy a used 4 ohm 'fridge (8x10).
Click to expand...

This will really be my first proper bass rig. I started with a 50 watt crate combo then moved on to using my PA for practices and performances. I still had the stock 15" crate cab and sometimes powered it with a yamaha receiver :facepalm:. To test out my new cab I ran my Tech 21 SansAmp VT Bass pedal through the power amp (effects return) of my Vox AC100CPH tube guitar amp - 100 watts at 8 Ohms... also not a great setup, or good for the amp. Ill make more concrete judgement late next week when I get my SVT-7.

I like the low end and usually play on the lowest two strings. The lows can always be rolled back in all the EQ stuff Ill have between the SanAmp pedal and the SVT-7. The cab also has a HF horn, which will help.

I think I'd rather turn the volume up more than have to worry about shredding my speakers... Im not really looking to add more gear to my bass setup and a 60lb 410 has a lot more appeal than a 135lb 810 just for practicalities sake.

I think Ill be plety loud, I usually dont want us to be as loud as possible. My lead guitarist has a Peavey 6505 120 watt tube head and a marshall 1960 412 cab and he doesnt even turn up to much anyway... volume isnt a huge issue for me.
 
#7
Im not sure how the crossover network works in the cab and thats my main reason for staying with 4 ohm drivers.

For what reasons would I switch it to 16 ohms from 4? I thought the lower it was the louder it was...
 
#8
andy2108 said:
Yes, per driver. When you mention driver displacement, what do you mean by that?
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It's how far the cone can move, and that's what limits output, not the wattage rating of the voice coil. Ampeg drivers have very conservative power ratings, but with displacement typically more than other drivers with power ratings two to three times higher.
 
#9
andy2108 said:
Im not sure how the crossover network works in the cab and thats my main reason for staying with 4 ohm drivers.
Click to expand...
The 10" drivers don't have a crossover on them.
For what reasons would I switch it to 16 ohms from 4? I thought the lower it was the louder it was...
Click to expand...
So that that HUGE f'in amp doesn't blow them up. the 3-400 watts you'd get into 16 ohms is about as much as an efficient 4x10 cab can handle anyways.

Of course you could just leave it 4 ohms and try not to blow it up (until you do) :D .
 
#11
billfitzmaurice said:
That's why amps come equipped with volume controls. When there's too much power the drivers fart out, when that happens you turn it down.
Click to expand...

Evidently a top secret agency has emailed everyone under 25 and told them that you had to turn up every knob to the top of its travel no matter what - as an aid to moving sales and services in a sluggish economy. We just didn't get that memo.

There's no advantage to running at 16 ohms.
Click to expand...

In fact it's quite the disadvantage when you want to easily mix and match with various amps.
 
#16
It was an SVT-3PRO or an SVT-7Pro... the 7 was only $50 more so I went with it. I started out looking for a SVT-3 but these speakers need to be replaced anyway...

I dont play that loud, but I dont want to nuke the speakers either.

I think these speakers had a pretty tough life before me. In the area on the cone where the surround is glued on it looks like the force of the coil has over stressed the paper cone where it meets the surround to the point of almost folding the paper, making a crease... Heres a pic (click for big)

IMG_20101128_124530.png


heres a vid that better shows whats going on... I doubt this helps sound quality



And no, Im not looking for $17 drivers. I understand quality on a budget is not easy, but Im going to try. I can do upto $100 a driver, but if there are some that are really awsome and just out of my range then please mention them.
 
#18
Honestly, I see a lot of reason to reload those cheaper Ampeg cabs with Basslite S2010s. Pretty affordable way to shed 15+lbs (240 bucks roughly) and gain a couple db of sensitivity, at no real sacrifice in the displacement department.

With the amount of power the OP has to throw around going from 4 to 8 ohms is not going to be a big deal. He could explode all the woofers either way.

iirc the Beta OEMs that Ampeg uses in their budget cabs sacrifice a lot of sensitivity.
 
#19
OEM drivers are SLM Electronics. St. Louis Music. Sensitivity is rated at 99dbs. 100 watts at 4 ohms.

http://www.ampeg.com/products/b/b410hlf/index.html

Those Eminence Basslite S2010 seem very nice for the price... and Neo.

Whats the difference between the S2010 and the CH2010?

EDIT: Looks like the S is pressed steel and the CH is Die-cast aluminum. Aluminum would be lighter so...

S has a paper cone and the CH has a Hemp cone. Does that matter / how does it affect sound?

EDIT: did a little quick reading, it looks like Hemp > Paper, correct?
 
#20
andy2108 said:
OEM drivers are SLM Electronics. St. Louis Music. Sensitivity is rated at 99dbs. 100 watts at 4 ohms.

http://www.ampeg.com/products/b/b410hlf/index.html

Those Eminence Basslite S2010 seem very nice for the price... and Neo.

Whats the difference between the S2010 and the CH2010?

EDIT: Looks like the S is pressed steel and the CH is Die-cast aluminum. Aluminum would be lighter so...

S has a paper cone and the CH has a Hemp cone. Does that matter / how does it affect sound?

EDIT: did a little quick reading, it looks like Hemp > Paper, correct?
Click to expand...
The big question is what's the xmax of the stock driver? More than 4mm? If so the S2010 (forget about the others) won't be an upgrade. But I don't know what the xmax of the Ampeg is, and they won't tell you. IMO the best ten, all things considered, is the Deltalite II 2510. If I was building a 4x10, or any ten loaded cab, that's what I'd use.

iirc the Beta OEMs that Ampeg uses in their budget cabs sacrifice a lot of sensitivity.
Click to expand...
They aren't Beta OEM. The number of folds in the surround is much higher than any stock Eminence, so it's very much not a typical OEM driver. That number of folds indicates a likely much longer than average OEM excursion capability.
 

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