New 8 channel interface choices: Focusrite Clarett+8Pre vs. Audient EVO 16

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Just got the EVO16 the other day and finally unboxed and hooked it up today. Have ordered the rack ears and hopefully they will arrive soon. So far everything seems fine. I'm not sure what the mixer software will do for me or how I'm supposed to use it, but I had no trouble setting up the unit and using the smart gain feature to set a level. And since the interface shows up in Logic, that's really all I need. I am really glad that it runs on High Sierra, because I prefer mixing on the big iMac screen which sets right in between the monitors.

I'm getting ready to hook up the 6 channel snake that can be stored at the bottom of the desk for when more inputs are needed. I originally wanted another interface with all 8 inputs on the front, but after some thought I remembered that I had this old snake that was handmade by an old friend who runs a studio, and that will actually be far more handy in the long run.

One thing I would like to ask of the recording brain trust here: When I open up Logic preferences, I get the option of using the EVO as the input device (duh), but also the output device. I don't understand why I would want to do that. I've got my whole desk wired with the computer audio out going to an 8 channel rack mixer, which also lets me mix in a bunch of other different sources as needed. What benefit would there be to setting the EVO as an output device?

Last, I notice both of my Audient interfaces do not have power switches. Is there a reason not to include this feature? Is it OK to just leave them powered up all the time? Seems a little strange, but I'm just a bass player.

 

[winston]

HI Chris, to your questions:

1) I use Logic, no need to set the Audient as an output device unless that's how you use it. One of the nice things about Mac Core Audio is that in Audio/MIDI settings you can create any combo of in/output devices as an Aggregate Device. I have done this various times using my Focusrite Saffire as input device and standard Mac audio out.
2) No power switch = money saved. If it's bus powered it may continue to draw power from the computer even when you're not using it. I put my interface on a power strip with my monitors and use that as the main power switch.

Interested to hear how this interface works for you over time, I've outgrown having "only" 4 preamps and am looking around for other options.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Thanks! I don't think there's any reason to use more features of the interface than I need. I've only done a few little sample recordings so far. The pres sound great to me and I can't say I hear a difference between them and the id22, but it's early days.

I have my desk on a power switch, so it will be off at night, at least.

Speaking of money saved, I have to wonder how they managed to get that many nice features into such a solidly built unit at this price point. Maybe time will tell. Also, is it worth it to test each input individually just to be sure? I'm assuming the rest of the channels will sound like channel 1.

 

[longfinger]

Congratulations. I also have a Firestudio Project, still works great, but I upgraded my 2009 MacBook Pro (El Capitan) to an M1 Mac mini. Of course, no new drivers means it does not work with my Mac mini even with the Thunderbolt to Firewire adapters ( 4 adapters!). I ended up getting an Audient ID4 mkii. (Keeping the MBP with FW for multitrack recording). I also wish the ID4 had a hardware ON/OFF switch, or at least better firmware for sleeping. I unplug the USBC cable when I'm not using mine.

One thing I would like to ask of the recording brain trust here: When I open up Logic preferences, I get the option of using the EVO as the input device (duh), but also the output device. I don't understand why I would want to do that. I've got my whole desk wired with the computer audio out going to an 8 channel rack mixer, which also lets me mix in a bunch of other different sources as needed. What benefit would there be to setting the EVO as an output device?

For most folks, we'd want to use the audio device as both input and output device. The studio monitors would be connected to the outs of the device.

Microphones and instruments go to the device, computer audio to the device, device out to the studio monitors. (Allows zero latency monitoring too)
Reason not to: the new device is for recording only, and regular playback is being handled by something else.

"computer audio out going to an 8 channel rack mixer". Most folks would send the audio from their new device to that 8 channel rack mixer. Why? Audio from the device is will be generally better specs than the audio from say the built in 3.5mm plug on a computer. Better cable hook up too.

How are you getting audio from your computer to your 8 channel mixer?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

@longfinger I'm using an adapter to get a stereo signal to the rack mixer. So a stereo channel is for the computer, and another stereo channel for an old iPod touch that mounts on the mixer and holds my metronome and Drumgenius apps. Then there are a couple of channels for another adapter that I can hook an iPad up to. I had the Firestudio Project hooked up to two of the channels, but never used them much. If the EVO16 works in standalone mode, it might be nice to use it for plugging an electric bass into now and then for practice purposes.

I guess I was just thinking that if I kept the computer hooked up to the interface, and then the mixer hooked up to the interface, then 4 channels would already be used up and I would have to unhook them when I wanted to record on those channels. In reality, the sound is fine even through the adapters as far as I can tell. Plus, it's very convenient to have the faders and EQ right in front of me for everything:

 

[longfinger]

Great setup.
If it works, it works.

@longfinger

I guess I was just thinking that if I kept the computer hooked up to the interface, and then the mixer hooked up to the interface, then 4 channels would already be used up and I would have to unhook them when I wanted to record on those channels.
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What I meant, is the OUTPUTS of the interface (Firestudio now EVO) would go to the INPUTS of your analogue mixer that goes to your speakers. All the interface inputs would be available for use. When listening to Apple Music or YouTube, or anything, the sound would go through the Presonus/EVO to your mixer.

The main advantages over the iMac 3.5mm stereo out are:
- zero latency monitoring when doing overdubs (live instrument passes through the interface to the mixer, tracks pass through the interface to the mixer (say for 1 person bass and piano duets)
- listening with headphones on the interface is more direct, bypassing the mixer
- better audio specs on the interface compared to the built in sound of the iMac
- better cables (ie 1/4" TRS instead of 3.5mm to RCA)

Some problems might be the iPhone call being patched into your iMac, you hear them, but a mic is not on for them to hear you. Ditto a FB / Face Time / Skype etc video call. You could have an XLR mic (with ON/OFF switch) plugged in and ready to go, but sometimes these video chat apps don't work so well with fancy audio hardware without puttzing around with numerous settings.

Curious, since you like front inputs and PreSonus, how come you did not consider the PreSonus Quantum 2626?

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I might still hook up the EVO outputs to the mixer. In fact, I may have already done so, come to think about it, since I connected two TRS plugs from the Presonus unit into the outputs of the EVO. That would make sense. I probably just derped. Thanks for the reminder!

I went with the EVO because I also have an Audient iD22 and really liked the preamps. Also because I keep hearing reports of Presonus CS being abjectly terrible, while hearing much better reports about Audient. I do like having all the inputs on the front, but the metering is better on the Audient box, and I have an old 6 channel snake that would be perfect for anything beyond the front 2 channels.

Most common format will be either bass and piano, or bass and a horn and piano…in which case the snake would be better to run to the piano, and I could actually keep it run over to a space under the piano for easier access. My long term plan is to keep a couple of mics installed inside the piano on clamps, which would make setting up really easy.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Things are moving along nicely. I got the rack ears and mounted it on the desk, and also ran the 6 channel snake around the room so I can keep the business end near the piano. Once I get the piano mic situation codified, I'll buy the shortest possible cables and keep the mics mounted inside the piano so all I have to do to record is snap on the cables.

And speaking of piano mics, I did a little testing today and my favorite pair so far are the Line Audio OM1s. If they end up being the keepers that would be awesome as they are tiny and not fussy about placement. Here's a little one minute clip of a piano sound check for tomorrow's trio session. https://chrisfitzgeraldmusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/EVO-16-Piano-test-OM1-pair.mp3

The little omnis sound really good with the EVO preamps, and their cardiod brothers sound perfect for the double bass. I never had a problem with the Presonus preamps they are replacing, but these are on a totally different level.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Update on the mics: we did a trio session with sax, bass, and drums this weekend. Sax and bass sounded great, piano not as much. So, omnis are great for solo, but directional mics will be needed for tracking in the same room with other instruments.

 

[silky smoove]

Update on the mics: we did a trio session with sax, bass, and drums this weekend. Sax and bass sounded great, piano not as much. So, omnis are great for solo, but directional mics will be needed for tracking in the same room with other instruments.

Mic'ing a piano is no easy task. A common "trial by fire" approach in pro studios with their interns is to tell them to mic up a grand piano and then go to lunch. When the engineer returns they'll see what kind of mess the intern has created

My limited experience with mic'ing a baby grand lead me to the following conclusion: SDCs placed in the box as a spaced pair works well for stereo spread but comes with phase concerns. A coincident pair will be better for phase but will present a narrower stereo image. A Blumlein pair works okay as long as the reflections off the back of the lid aren't problematic. A PZM inside the box is an excellent way to capture string attack and bottom end simultaneously. A well placed room mic or stereo room mics (be careful with phase) are likely going to be the bulk of your tone if well-placed.

Moral of the story: Mic'ing a piano is hard, even for pros.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

@silky smoove You are not wrong. At the U, we have gotten good results on the office Steinways by using a pair of AT 4040's spaced about 18" apart over bass and treble sides, maybe 4-6" over the strings with the lid on half stick and a blanket over the open spaces around the lid.

At home, I'm hoping to place some clamps on the cross braces with short goosenecks so that I can keep the mics inside the piano to make recording a friendly experience. It will take some trial and error, I'm sure. Next to try will be the little Line Audio CM3 pair. I'm hoping they do a little better for ensemble tracking where we are all in the same room.

 

[WG Plum]

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I have set-up envy. That's really nice.

 

[silky smoove]

I'm hoping to place some clamps on the cross braces with short goosenecks so that I can keep the mics inside the piano to make recording a friendly experience

PZMs are another option as you literally just set them inside the box and you're done. I've never used a PZM as the only mic on a piano but in conjunction with a room mic it can be very nice, particularly if you'd like the piano to be mono. I suppose you could do a PZM on the bass side and another on the treble side but the hemispherical omni pattern might yield too much at each mic to present a very clear/wide stereo image.

Next to try will be the little Line Audio CM3 pair.

I have a Line Audio 8MP preamp for when I either need to expand my channel count for tracking, or when I want a clean/neutral mic pre as an option. I'll say this about Line Audio: They make very high quality stuff. Far higher quality than the price point would suggest, and way better than other comparably priced makers like Warm and the like. Those CM3 SDCs are remarkably flat in their frequency response. As long as they can handle the SPLs being inside the box I'm guessing they'll make an excellent choice.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

@silky smoove Yes, the little CM3s are ridiculous. The guy who records the Louisville Orchestra here in town turned me onto them after he put a pair of them on a tree with a pair of Schoeps SDCs and couldn't tell the two stereo tracks apart in spite of the fact that the Schoeps mics cost 12x as much. I used a single CM3 on the bass on Saturday's session, and it sounded amazing. I may need to buy another pair if they work for the piano like I suspect they will.