New Acoustic Image heads

[John D Harris]

Hoping I don't start a big ugly mess (again)..... I find that amps with switching power supplies like the AI and WW are not nearly as loud as similarly rated traditional linear power supply amps (not talking about switching power supplies in general... etc. etc.... just talking about these two... the WW and the AI). The AI Focus (600 watts into 4ohms) and WW Ultra (1200 watts into 4ohms) are plenty loud and sound wonderful.... but if you put the WW side by side with a 50 pound, high quality stereo power amp that is 1200 watts bridged.... or even an Eden 800 or other high quality, high wattage amp with a big old transformer, you will hear a fuller, meatier, fatter low end.

I find, for aggressive electric bass playing (slapping, round wound strings, active bass, etc., etc.) the 500 watt Thunderfunk can get significantly louder and punchier in the under 100hz region than the AI Focus at 600 watts.

However... give these switching power supply amps a break .... the Focus is 4 pounds for gosh sake... it sounds AMAZING for a 4 pound amp.... and WW 1200 watts in 7 pounds and the size of a cigar box... again, amazing.... but it's not going to put out as much booty as the 60 pound AG750, even though it has 'more watts'.

+1

I'd sure love to get my hands on an amp that had the low end of an iAmp-800, the mids of a WW Ultra, and the treble of a ThunderFunk (preferably 20 lbs or less).

That would be SOME amp!

 

[bassjam]

i owned an eden wt-550 when i bought my focus.ill agree with KJung that the eden seemed to be a bit meatier and i would say a bit smoother but i thought the focus was every bit as loud.the 550 definatly has that eden sound while again the focus is pretty much uncolored(what goes in is what comes out)i prefered the focus and sold the eden.

 

[Petebass]

the million dollar question is...

do you guys think that Acoustic Image gives their amps a fair rating in terms of wattage when compared to other amp makers?

From what I have read on TB, Mesa and Eden are louder while some are quieter.

Where does AI fit into this?

Technically, a watt is a watt. It's a unit of measurement like any other. An inch is an inch no matter how you look at it.

Why are some 800W amps louder than other 800W amps? Frequency response! Flat sounds "nicer" while non-flat sounds "louder" if you accentuate the "right" frequencies. Pardon the over-use inverted commas but this area is no only VERY subjective, it can cause flame wars so I'm treading lightly.......

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

How does petebass comments apply to the SA Focus? Its a poweramp so it just amplifies the signal of the preamp, which in my case is the sansamp para driver. Surely the para driver adds colour to the sound moreso than the Focus w/ the pre built in.

Is it fair to say that the para driver (or any other coloured preamp) + SA Focus sounds louder than the integrated Focus?

 

[Petebass]

How does petebass comments apply to the SA Focus? Its a poweramp so it just amplifies the signal of the preamp, which in my case is the sansamp para driver. Surely the para driver adds colour to the sound moreso than the Focus w/ the pre built in.

Is it fair to say that the para driver (or any other coloured preamp) + SA Focus sounds louder than the integrated Focus?

Assuming the poweramp adds no colour to your sound what so-ever (which isn't entirely true but is close enough), the Samsamp is the primary preamp. My Samsamp with everything set in the middle certainly has a "smiley face" EQ to it. Which is exactly the opposite of what Eden or Thunderfunk or any of the "louder" brands do.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

So to negate the smiley face on the sansamp, turn down the treble and bass eq to get a flat sound? By how much... alot, a little?

From what I have learned on TB the smiley face sounds good solo, but in the band mix, more present mids are favourable.

By your comments I am guessing that you are saying that Eden and thunderfunk accentuate the mids so they seem louder. This would be the opposite of the sansamp smiley face, as you say.

 

[Petebass]

So to negate the smiley face on the sansamp, turn down the treble and bass eq to get a flat sound? By how much... alot, a little?

To my ears, quite a bit. To me the Bass and treble knobs need to to be at about 9 or 10 o'clock on my SABDDI (presence all the way off). Even the instruction manual says that in the absence of a mid knob, mids are boosted by cutting Bass and treble, then and boosting the gain to compensate for lost volume.

From what I have learned on TB the smiley face sounds good solo, but in the band mix, more present mids are favourable.

I agree.

By your comments I am guessing that you are saying that Eden and thunderfunk accentuate the mids so they seem louder. This would be the opposite of the sansamp smiley face, as you say.

Eden, definintely. I've never auditioned a thunderfunk so I can't comment. I used it as an example based on what TB'ers say. But what is "mids"? On the frequency spectrum, that can be anything between 150Hz to 2K. There's a lot of room between those frequencies to play with, so one person's/manufacturer's idea of "mids" might be completely different to yours or mine. Eden have a hump in the 150Hz range IMO, so I guess you'd call that low mids....

 

[wateroftyne]

So to negate the smiley face on the sansamp, turn down the treble and bass eq to get a flat sound? By how much... alot, a little?

The Sansamp is a *very* powerful thing. To counter the hugely smiley EQ, roll the 'Blend' control right back, even as far as 8/9 o'clock. I then boost the bass a little to compensate. That brings the mids right back into the mix.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

Yeah, I usually turn the blend knob to zero unless I am playing with a pick. I find the blend just adds muddyness very quickly.

Its a bit of situation for me because:

- I need to cut thru > boost mids
- I like to hear some harmonics and a clear sound > dont cut too much treble
-I still want very much to sound like a bass > dont want to cut too much bass.

I am strongly thinking of buy a 10 or 7 band eq such as the MXR M108 or maybe the boss geb7. Then I could really get a handle on this stuff.

 

[KJung]

Yeah, I usually turn the blend knob to zero unless I am playing with a pick. I find the blend just adds muddyness very quickly.

Its a bit of situation for me because:

- I need to cut thru > boost mids
- I like to hear some harmonics and a clear sound > dont cut too much treble
-I still want very much to sound like a bass > dont want to cut too much bass.

I am strongly thinking of buy a 10 or 7 band eq such as the MXR M108 or maybe the boss geb7. Then I could really get a handle on this stuff.

I had one of these a while back and it wasn't my thing at all. However, if I remember correctly, with the blend knob all the way off, doesn't that take everything (the tube emulation, tone controls, everything) out of the system, so that it acts basically as direct box?

It sounds like you need a true preamp designed for bass and also to drive a power amp appropriately. There's a million of them out there with great tone controls, DI''s, etc., from grindy Ampegs to sizzly EBS's, to warm and punchy AG's, etc., etc.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

I'm kind of thinking the same thing. Can you give me suggestions of what you are talking about in a pedal form?

 

[KJung]

I'm kind of thinking the same thing. Can you give me suggestions of what you are talking about in a pedal form?

Not really aware of any in pedal format. I wish the AI guys would make the Focus SA in a single rack space format. Would that be great or what? The series three is 800 watts into 4ohm.

So, I'm not sure what to tell you The full Focus would solve the problem, since it has a nice preamp built in, and you could add a small pedal if you need a little grit, etc.

Maybe other TBers are aware of a true, more 'flat' preamp that has a strong enough line level output to appropriately and cleanly drive you SA. Good luck with your search.

 

[Biker4Him]

The True-Voice desktop is a very nice pre that is small, but not technically a pedal. It will fit inside the front pocket of the AI bag that came with your Focus SA, and will easily drive the the SA correctly.

Another great option is the EBS Microbass II. I used to have one, and wish now that I'd never gotten rid of it.

(any of you Europeans wanna help me get one??)

Not really aware of any in pedal format. I wish the AI guys would make the Focus SA in a single rack space format. Would that be great or what? The series three is 800 watts into 4ohm.

So, I'm not sure what to tell you The full Focus would solve the problem, since it has a nice preamp built in, and you could add a small pedal if you need a little grit, etc.

Maybe other TBers are aware of a true, more 'flat' preamp that has a strong enough line level output to appropriately and cleanly drive you SA. Good luck with your search.

 

[John D Harris]

I'm kind of thinking the same thing. Can you give me suggestions of what you are talking about in a pedal form?

Also, Sadowsky Outboard Preamp/DI, John East STMP 01, and I think Fodera is working on one.

 

[KJung]

Also, Sadowsky Outboard Preamp/DI, John East STMP 01, and I think Fodera is working on one.

Those are more like on-board bass preamps in a box. I think that's part of his problem. Those boxes, while they might drive a power amp, are not designed for that purpose. They are originally designed to go between a passive bass and a preamp.

 

[John D Harris]

Those are more like on-board bass preamps in a box. I think that's part of his problem. Those boxes, while they might drive a power amp, are not designed for that purpose. They are originally designed to go between a passive bass and a preamp.

I could be wrong, but I would think that with the sensitivity of the AI SA they would work OK.

I guess it would be best to check with the tech support at AI (maybe also the support for the preamp makers to make sure what the normal output voltage is).

 

[KJung]

I could be wrong, but I would think that with the sensitivity of the AI SA they would work OK.

I guess it would be best to check with the tech support at AI (maybe also the support for the preamp makers to make sure what the normal output voltage is).

+1 This is all sort of uncharted territory for me. However, there's a reason that 95% of us use either integrated heads or AC powered high quality rack preamps designed to push a power amp

 

[John D Harris]

I think the portability issue is driving a lot of innovation in the bass community.

That Fodera floor stompbox preamp (or even rackmount) would create some serious GAS for me (I really liked the Fodera sound clips on basstasters), but I'm not sure if it would have enough output to drive a stock sensitivity QSC power amp (looking at maybe a Stewart 2.1).

I think a lot of uncharted waters are headed bassists' way as far as new equipment goes.

 

[Biker4Him]

I think the portability issue is driving a lot of innovation in the bass community.

I agree.. in the future, more and more bass preamps will be smaller, more portable non-rackmounted units. The rackmounts will always be viable... but the for a lot of us.. the ability to "pack small" is very attractive.

It's sure is a great time to be a bass player!!!

 

[KJung]

I agree.. in the future, more and more bass preamps will be smaller, more portable non-rackmounted units. The rackmounts will always be viable... but the for a lot of us.. the ability to "pack small" is very attractive.

It's sure is a great time to be a bass player!!!

+1... although with my integrated Focus and integrated WW, I pack smaller than even a non-rack mount, separate pedal type unit and a small power amp. I actually find separate pieces, even when small, more of a hassle to transport than a small one piece solution... even if it's a two space rack mount. However.... it's all good!!!!