New amp search - Am I asking for too much?

[AstroSonic]

The OP is actually unlikely to gain 3 db going from 400 to 800w due to thermal compression.

I would be more concerned with how the amp/cab combination sounded.

 

[CL400Peavey]

MB800 is 500@8, 800@4.

OK, what is the actual difference in acoustic output? Less than 3dB. Noticeable but not significantly so.

That is assuming the driver is doing anything but generating heat with that extra power.

The OP is actually unlikely to gain 3 db going from 400 to 800w due to thermal compression.

I would be more concerned with how the amp/cab combination sounded.

Yes exactly.



Here is one thing I will add, in support of the OP. Head room matters. It matters a lot with class D, and even more so when using a cab like the Barefaced. If you dont like the sound of your amp as it reaches its limits, you really wont like it through a more transparent cab.

 

[Wasnex]

Once upon a time I had a SVT IV (?) and while it sounded great, was a boat anchor. With two replacement hips and both shoulders reworked, I'm not into heavy anymore...

John,

It sounds like form factor and minimal weight needs to be your priority. The Terror Bass 1000 comes pretty darn close to your requirements with 900 watts at 8 ohms and 11 pounds per the manual. Something to keep in mind is the TB 1000 is only rated for 1000 watts at 4 ohms. On paper the TB 1000 has only 200 watts more at 4 ohms than the MB 800 Fusion and 100 watts more than the Streamliner 900 at 4 ohms. This difference will likely be inconsequential in the real world when driving two 8 ohm cabs. The MB 800 Fusion weighs 5.5 lbs and is rated at 560 watts at 8 ohms, while the Streamliner weighs 6.5 lbs and is rated for 500 watts at 8 ohms, which is a lot of power for a single 12 inch speaker. Another option is the Tecamp Puma 1000 which weighs 6.2 lbs and puts out 1000 watts in 8 ohms in bridge mode or 500 watts x 2 at 4 ohms.

I haven't played any of these amps but they are all extensively reviewed and respected on talkbass so you can do some research to get a feel for their tonal characteristics. I am personally interested in the MB 800 Fusion and Streamliner 900 which are reported to be very different tonally. No interest in the Terror Bass as it is said to be tonally very close to the AD200 which is on my bucket list. Also no interest in the Puma as I am not a big fan of bridging and have no need for 1,000 watts at 8 ohms. In my opinion having this much power on tap when driving a single 12 will require a great deal of restraint to avoid damaging your speaker.

There are other options you might like as well if you can get past the 800 watt at 8 ohm requirement. Personally I would love to try out the new Jule Monique 700. The Tardis version weighs 14 lbs which is very close to your target weight. Although the Monique is rated for 700 watts at 4 ohms, reviewers suggest it has the feel of a much larger amp due to its conservative rating and a power supply that is essentially a 1200 watt design.

Good luck!

 

[jharms80439]

All,

Thanks go out to everyone for the input. Really.

So, I actually took many folk's input, bought a few heads, am in the process of returning all but one. I bought an Orange Terror Bass 1000, Tecamp Puma 900, and tried out the GK MB800 and an Epifani. Short answer is that "Head to Head", the Orange won out. The Orange has tons of head room and it "likes" both my pedal board and my mic'd (via a Presonus tube preamp and a troll mic) upright. Through the Barefaced Big Baby II, the sound is full, rich and pedal board hum is tamed - read that as pretty darn quiet (well, except for the fan...) Played through each head with the Barefaced BB2 and the following basses: Fender/Warmoth Fretless P with '62 pickups, stock Fender Urge II, stock Fender Roscoe Beck IV, Ibanez SR5006 with flat wounds and a Conklin 7.

Tried the Tecamp Puma during my 14 day trial. Head did not like my pedal board at all - major hum. Sound was clean and crisp, or dulled with the "Taste" control. Overall sounded great at low volume with lots of head room, but tone suffered at high volume (gain at 2/3, volume at 3/4). Tone was "good", but not great, and sounded really compressed when pushed.

Played the GK on loan from a friend through my system. Again, good sound, liked my pedal board better than the Puma, but I wasn't a fan of the mids. I just couldn't get them tamed - perhaps with a multi band graphic, para/semi-para EQ, I could have, but I don't have one and was pushed for time too. Bass tone was fantastic at low volume, but mids went sort of honky at higher volume. Upper frequencies were clean and crisp - slap was tight with my Urge II and likely the best of the bunch. Upright tone was even and good, but again the voicing of the mids seemed off.

Epifani was great at low and mid volume, but headroom suffered at high volume. Seemed I couldn't control the dynamics on my Conklin 7 (strung B to high F) in the guitar range. With a wet reverb sound for guitar chord work was pretty brittle sounding.

Plugging in and setting up the Orange with the stock tubes was pretty much as everyone has said - 1000 watts is a lot at low volume and is likely overkill. Volume was at ~2, with gain at 1/3. Tone with each bass was great. Bass notes seemed to jump out, but never honky or un balanced - playing dynamics were great - soft when played soft and fantastic when played hard. Slap with the Urge was the best that I have ever heard when played by me or when played anyone else. Through my basses, pedal board and cabinet the Orange is terrific.

After getting the Orange, I ordered a few 12AT7 tubes (2 tubes each of the following and $274 total) - JJ, vintage RCA, Telefunken, two different sets of Mullards and Tung Sol. Yes, I changed both V1 and V2 and will figure out whether I need to change back the V2 tube if I ever go into a PA. I have a bunch of 12AX7's - vintage and fairly new, from my old Ampeg IV and Alembic F-1X days.

With the 12AT7s, gain is now ~1/2 and volume is usable up to ~3/4. When the volume is at 3/4, tone is even and rich, dynamics play very well and the package is pretty light. Fan for the studio (...like I record? Unlikely...) may be an issue - but I can sort that out if it ever need to overcome the issue.

One more thing - besides slab, I do play upright - both acoustic and EUB. Both mic'd and Realist (David Gage piezo pickup) sound awesome Pizz and Arco through the Orange. Fast passages Arco are not blurry as I thought they may be - and I believe that is due to both the availability of headroom and the mix of tube with a Class D amp technology. Yes, it sounds like my bass, only louder. Harmonic content is rich but not overdone. Playing dynamics sound awesome too.

Overall, I'm a happy camper. I tried the "best" of what is available (in my budget) and found what suits what I play both musically and basses/pedals. All of the heads sounded good. A/B'ing them allowed me to test them with my ears. I've read (both here on TB and on the InterWeb) how tube heads are often "voiced" where SS heads are less so. That is likely true. Each head sounded "different" through my basses and cabinet - not "bad", actually, most often they sounded great. But as a bass player, I noticed tonal differences. The BB2 is a pretty flat (close to studio monitor quality) and this allowed me to "notice" each head's tonal differences.

Hey, this is just one guy's opinion about what sounded great, so please take it with a grain of salt and do your own listening...

Again, thanks for the help in choosing...

John

 

[sloppy_phil]

Right on, bud! Great choice in amp, and a good well-rounded shootout you gave yourself to make sure. I can't handle the GK sound either; it just *does not* go away no matter what you try. I've loved my Orange since I grabbed it up, too. Instead of rolling 12AT7s in it, though, I opted for 5751 in V1, and kept the 12AX7 (well, I put in a NOS Sylvania) in V2. It was great for taming the gain a little bit, and just giving the amp a smoother and more defined character. Still barks great like I would hope from an Orange, but will stay cleaner further into its volume range, and there is just more overall clarity/definition. No doubt your own tube experiments will get you where you need to

 

[B-string]

Too bad you didn't try the MBFusion 800. Full tube preamp with selectable mid frequency. I have no trouble "taming mids" with G-Ks unless the speaker cab is way too mid heavy or the bass setup/strings are the root.

Ya know even then use the "tone suck" as some call it, contour control. It is like a smiley face eq mid cut. More complex than that, but the general take around here.

 

[Wasnex]

Hey, this is just one guy's opinion about what sounded great, so please take it with a grain of salt and do your own listening...

The best advice ever my friend and you certainly know how to lead by example.

 

[Munjibunga]

Well, an Eden WT-800B or C will do 880 watts bridged into 8 ohms. It's too wide (18 inches or so) and too heavy (26 pounds) for your specs, though. Bottom line, you're going to have to make some concessions here or there. The problem is that you're going to need at least a 1,200-watt head (into 4 ohms, which is where most companies rate their amps). If I were you, I'd go with the Eden. It will put out 1,100 watts at 4 ohms if you add another cab. As far as pushing it into break-up, it's not particularly good at that, but that's why we have effects pedals that do a very good job of it.

 

[Munjibunga]

Oh yeah, I also agree that the MB Fusion 800 would be a good choice, even though you're going to get only 500 watts at 8 ohms. That's just a different set of concessions that you'd have to make. It's light weight, smaller, powerful, and can give you more tube character than the Eden. I use mine with either my AE210 (at 500 watts) or CN212 (with all 800). Very good choice if you can't roll with the size and weight of the Eden.