New Band Red Flag

[Downunderwonder]

wouldn't you know that's the kind of band you're in?

definitely maybe but OP was mean on the dots and hasn't filled in any lines. How green would you have to be not to recognize an entire genre groove substitution going on if the tune was sung per original? I don't know.

 

[brianrost]

He takes exception to unions and I take exception to his uninformed right wing take on it.

If you read his autobiography then you also know that FZ had many negative experiences with the musician's unions both in the US and Europe.

Nowadays in the US, musician's union enforcement has no teeth (another topic entirely), but in the 1960s and 1970s it was still common for union reps to come to gigs demanding to see union cards. If someone had no card or was behind on payment of dues, a performance could be stopped and the bandleader fined. Gigs could also be shut down if the band was paid less than union scale, even if the band was OK with the low dough. That sort of thing was the source of the anti-union FZ lyrics.

 

[2112]

If you read his autobiography then you also know that FZ had many negative experiences with the musician's unions both in the US and Europe.

Nowadays in the US, musician's union enforcement has no teeth (another topic entirely), but in the 1960s and 1970s it was still common for union reps to come to gigs demanding to see union cards. If someone had no card or was behind on payment of dues, a performance could be stopped and the bandleader fined. Gigs could also be shut down if the band was paid less than union scale, even if the band was OK with the low dough. That sort of thing was the source of the anti-union FZ lyrics.

 

[Peteyboy]

If you read his autobiography then you also know that FZ had many negative experiences with the musician's unions both in the US and Europe.

Nowadays in the US, musician's union enforcement has no teeth (another topic entirely), but in the 1960s and 1970s it was still common for union reps to come to gigs demanding to see union cards. If someone had no card or was behind on payment of dues, a performance could be stopped and the bandleader fined. Gigs could also be shut down if the band was paid less than union scale, even if the band was OK with the low dough. That sort of thing was the source of the anti-union FZ lyrics.

In a top-down organization like FZ's that all sounds like a management problem to me. He says that the success or failure of a record or gig lies solely with him. Takes all the credit, accepts any blame. So ALL of the problems are his, and it's playing it both ways for him to gripe about that. Why would any career sideman care about the travails of bandleader who proudly reserves the right to exploit them?

 

[DJ Bebop]

If you read his autobiography then you also know that FZ had many negative experiences with the musician's unions both in the US and Europe.

Nowadays in the US, musician's union enforcement has no teeth (another topic entirely), but in the 1960s and 1970s it was still common for union reps to come to gigs demanding to see union cards. If someone had no card or was behind on payment of dues, a performance could be stopped and the bandleader fined. Gigs could also be shut down if the band was paid less than union scale, even if the band was OK with the low dough. That sort of thing was the source of the anti-union FZ lyrics.

Yup, same thing with cabaret cards in NYC. No card, no work.

 

[DanGR]

Hope this is the right place for this question. I joined a new band, 8 weeks in (six practices) and the drummer (Band leader) has requested that I play only root notes on some songs, He and I haven't seemed to mesh yet, he started out critical of my timing the first to practices, then moved on to the actual notes I was playing, now this, All very seasoned musicians with incredible ear for music (keyboard and guitar and the sax player has a pretty good ear on his own), but the drummer seems to want to control what I play. FYI I'm out of a rock band, this band plays oldies and standards along the lines of Motown r&b and dance standards. How would you read this situation if it was you? Spare no feelings. TY

My experience with these type of guys is that you have to Bark back and let them know you're not going to be their whipping boy. If that doesn't work, I'd move on. It isn't going to get any better.

 

[buldog5151bass]

If you read his autobiography then you also know that FZ had many negative experiences with the musician's unions both in the US and Europe.

Nowadays in the US, musician's union enforcement has no teeth (another topic entirely), but in the 1960s and 1970s it was still common for union reps to come to gigs demanding to see union cards. If someone had no card or was behind on payment of dues, a performance could be stopped and the bandleader fined. Gigs could also be shut down if the band was paid less than union scale, even if the band was OK with the low dough. That sort of thing was the source of the anti-union FZ lyrics.

A lot of musicians outside the big cities didn't want unions, because they were pulling down $100 and more per gig in the 70s. How 40 years later, a lot of musicians are fighting to get $100 per gig.

 

[Shalto]

That answer usually comes from this being the internet and no consequences involved to say that. I'm sure in a setting with people standing a meer 3 feet away they become much more cordial and willing to listen to ideas. LOL that's what's funny about it to me.

This why many forums seem to suggest assault as a legitimate response to conflict, as if there was no such thing as a justice system IRL

 

[brianrost]

Why would any career sideman care about the travails of bandleader who proudly reserves the right to exploit them?

This is turning into a political discussion. I am not going to participate in this any further.

 

[Peteyboy]

This is turning into a political discussion. I am not going to participate in this any further.

Don't we all work? Thats only as political as you make it. An expectation of basic rights is just about breaking even. No more "political" than mentioning requirements of food, clothing, and shelter.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Don't we all work? Thats only as political as you make it. An expectation of basic rights is just about breaking even. No more "political" than mentioning requirements of food, clothing, and shelter.

Give the OP his thread back.

 

[Peteyboy]

Give the OP his thread back.

All due respect: it's a cover band. Play what's on the recording.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

My read on this is he doesn't think you're up to the gig. Whether that is true or not is subjective. But, don't be discouraged. Playing with musicians above your level is a good thing. They will pull you up to their level.
You have two choices - walk or bust your butt to get what he wants. It may be that he has poor interpersonal skills, but his couching is valuable.

 

[Downunderwonder]

All due respect: it's a cover band. Play what's on the recording.

That is one approach. Not particularly interested in chewing that rag eirher.

HEY @SCS how's the setlist coming along?

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Nowadays in the US, musician's union enforcement has no teeth (another topic entirely), but in the 1960s and 1970s it was still common for union reps to come to gigs demanding to see union cards. If someone had no card or was behind on payment of dues, a performance could be stopped and the bandleader fined. Gigs could also be shut down if the band was paid less than union scale, even if the band was OK with the low dough.

I'm reminded of Victor Borga, at the end of every show, opening the curtain to reveal three musicians, playing cards at a folding table backstage because union rules INSISTED four musicians were needed (even in a one-man show?).

 

[Beejay772]

Hope this is the right place for this question. I joined a new band, 8 weeks in (six practices) and the drummer (Band leader) has requested that I play only root notes on some songs, He and I haven't seemed to mesh yet, he started out critical of my timing the first to practices, then moved on to the actual notes I was playing, now this, All very seasoned musicians with incredible ear for music (keyboard and guitar and the sax player has a pretty good ear on his own), but the drummer seems to want to control what I play. FYI I'm out of a rock band, this band plays oldies and standards along the lines of Motown r&b and dance standards. How would you read this situation if it was you? Spare no feelings. TY

Be who you were at the audition. That's who they hired. That's who they want, and by "they" I mean the whole band. If the drummer wants something different maybe the band might not agree. Try to understand the difference between band leader and band controller.

 

[MonetBass]

Easy answer: Play the notes that are required for the song. I seriously doubt all of them have just root notes being played on the originals.

 

[Sean Brookes]

I’m going with the assumption the drummer is pro and knows what he’s talking about...

the musicians and line up are probably wildly different to the personal on the original recording. Could be a case of the OP is playing the original lines and they just don’t sound right with the mix, groove and lineup of the band. He is new to the band after all? I’ve certainly witnessed this myself in many occasions.

those Motown guys played and recorded with each other so much. Of course it sounds great on record.

 

[hbarcat]

I don't know if this is what happened to the OP, but I've been on the receiving end of several deliberate "bait and switch" auditions in the past.

They say that they really like my playing, and my style is perfect, and I'm exactly the person they're looking for. Then, after 3 or 4 practices, they start making small suggestions about how I should change my playing. If I go along with it, it's followed by more intrusive demands in the weeks following.

Basically, they lied to me to get me to join, telling me what they think I want to hear and expecting that once I've committed for a month and learned all their songs that I'll be reluctant to quit if they start micromanaging my job.

Just don't lie to me. I always try to find out what the band I'm auditioning for expects of me and what their goals are as performers. Then I make it very clear that I going to play the bass just like I do during my audition. That's who you're getting.

If you want to micromanage what I do, then just be honest and say so. It's possible I might even be amenable to having them tell me what and how to play if the band seems like a great opportunity.

But I don't appreciate my time being wasted.

Like I said, I don't know if the OP situation is like this or not, but it's happened often enough in my experience that it's something I always look out for.

 

[QORC]

I would say this: If you can't deal with how they do things, or them wanting you to change how you are doing songs, you need to move on. Clearly it's not the situation for you. I think it's pretty simple when you are joining a band - you are joining THEM ,they are not joining you. Either you become what they want and need, or there will be friction and you will quit or you will get fired. It's just reality. You're the new guy. You either conform to their wishes or it will end anyway.

I think if you're irritated this early, this is not "the one."