New Band Red Flag

[F peyton]

Have you resolved the timing issues you mentioned ?
The relationship between the drummer and bass player is not always automatic.
I am in a band that changed drummers. The new drummers timing sometimes drifts -and he definitely speeds up on certain songs. the drummer he replaced and I locked into every song and we never looked back.
our repertoire is classic rock some blues and some oldies (i.e like doo wah diddie, hand on sloopy)

 

[Polish Thunder]

Tell him to name a single Motown song with a root only Bassline and you’ll haul every piece of drum gear to the next 1,000 gigs.

Hold On, I'm Coming by Sam and Dave is mostly Root or R-5 with some chromatic runs....



I guess a question is, how close to the original can/do you play and how accurate are you to the original song, including the timing? In other words, if you are playing the Motown bass lines as if you were Cliff Burton or Geddy Lee, then it is probably not a good fit. Without hearing you or the band, it is a tough question to answer.

 

[ineedsomebass]

I’m going to make this as simple as I can for you-

1) If you don’t mesh with the drummer, you have no rhythm section.
2) If you have no rhythm section, you have no band.

Time for you to leave. Period. End of story.

 

[AMp'D.2play]

Tell him to name a single Motown song with a root only Bassline and you’ll haul every piece of drum gear to the next 1,000 gigs.

I can't disagree with your premise, but a song like My Girl by The Temptations comes pretty darn close. Other than the 5-R intro and bass breakdown in the middle, hammering the roots is pretty much all that's required. (Adding a couple of walks to the next chord is optional. )

The OP hasn't indicated specifically which song(s) the BL is talking about, but maybe this song is one example where the OP is doubling the guitar and playing the major pentatonic over the verses instead of the roots, and the BL doesn't want that.

 

[Kathy Clark]

Hope this is the right place for this question. I joined a new band, 8 weeks in (six practices) and the drummer (Band leader) has requested that I play only root notes on some songs, He and I haven't seemed to mesh yet, he started out critical of my timing the first to practices, then moved on to the actual notes I was playing, now this, All very seasoned musicians with incredible ear for music (keyboard and guitar and the sax player has a pretty good ear on his own), but the drummer seems to want to control what I play. FYI I'm out of a rock band, this band plays oldies and standards along the lines of Motown r&b and dance standards. How would you read this situation if it was you? Spare no feelings. TY

Hope this is the right place for this question. I joined a new band, 8 weeks in (six practices) and the drummer (Band leader) has requested that I play only root notes on some songs, He and I haven't seemed to mesh yet, he started out critical of my timing the first to practices, then moved on to the actual notes I was playing, now this, All very seasoned musicians with incredible ear for music (keyboard and guitar and the sax player has a pretty good ear on his own), but the drummer seems to want to control what I play. FYI I'm out of a rock band, this band plays oldies and standards along the lines of Motown r&b and dance standards. How would you read this situation if it was you? Spare no feelings. TY

It is my opinion that if I didn't start the band, the person in charge should say how he or she wants to hear the band

 

[turf3]

Fourteen pages and you're all still obsessed with "THE" recording of a particular tune recorded 60 years ago and whethe the bass player on that record played a lot of plain roots - and still no one is willing to consider that - just MAYBE - the band leader doesn't WANT his band's rendition of that song to sound exactly like "THE" record.

Why are you all so afraid of sounding different than one specific group of musicians gathered in one specific studio 60 years ago?

 

[DJ Dru]

Because I know I have a tendency to over think things, I just want to make sure he's not sending a message that a more trained musician would get, But I'm not getting.

How about just straight up ask him? That might make him feel better and you will certainly know what you need to do.

 

[LBS-bass]

Hold On, I'm Coming by Sam and Dave is mostly Root or R-5 with some chromatic runs....



I guess a question is, how close to the original can/do you play and how accurate are you to the original song, including the timing? In other words, if you are playing the Motown bass lines as if you were Cliff Burton or Geddy Lee, then it is probably not a good fit. Without hearing you or the band, it is a tough question to answer.

Not to quibble, but Sam and Dave is not Motown. They were on Stax, and it's a different sound entirely.

As someone else noted, there are ballads with fairly simple bass lines in some of the Motown songs. That's how ballads work; it'd be silly to have a bouncing line in "My Girl".

It's not really representative. Another simple Motown line was "Papa Was a Rolling Stone." Not R-5 but simple and repetitive.

You can always find exceptions to any rule

 

[glitchslap]

Just be a cooperative player...try it his way, if that is not a good fit...have a conversation with the drummer and use what is best for the BAND. Maybe he needs to temper his communication style. Respect is a two way street...give what you get!

 

[Polish Thunder]

Not to quibble, but Sam and Dave is not Motown. They were on Stax, and it's a different sound entirely.

As someone else noted, there are ballads with fairly simple bass lines in some of the Motown songs. That's how ballads work; it'd be silly to have a bouncing line in "My Girl".

It's not really representative. Another simple Motown line was "Papa Was a Rolling Stone." Not R-5 but simple and repetitive.

You can always find exceptions to any rule

My bad. I know that but had a brain fart. Plus I live in Michigan so I really should know better. (Funny, I do know that Duck Dunn played on Sam and Dave's Hold On.)

Maybe I should have said R&B instead of Motown?

Anyways...I will shut up now......

 

[LBS-bass]

My bad. I know that but had a brain fart. Plus I live in Michigan so I really should know better. (Funny, I do know that Duck Dunn played on Sam and Dave's Hold On.)

Maybe I should have said R&B instead of Motown?

Anyways...I will shut up now......

No worries. Just wanted to point that up for the young'uns. That Memphis soul Stax sound was also hugely influential!

 

[Polish Thunder]

No worries. Just wanted to point that up for the young'uns. That Memphis soul Stax sound was also hugely influential!

James Jamerson and Duck Dunn are two of my favorites, if not my top two favorite bassists.

I highly recommend the book "Soul Fingers: The Music & Life of Legendary Bassist Donald "Duck" Dunn". Great read about Duck Dunn and Stax Records.

Maybe I need to read it again.....

 

[gomi_otaku]

and the drummer (Band leader) has requested

Unless you are playing with Phil Collins or Dave Grohl, tell him to shag right off.

 

[mcclurer16]

If you are an intermediate musician wanting to play with more experienced players then I would follow the BL. If you are new to the band and have not meshed with the drummer then he is probably just not trusting with your playing. Focus on the relationship with the BL and the music first. If the BL is a controlling jerk that will become obvious over time. You can always quit later....Either way you’re playing with better players which is good experience.

 

[amper]

I joined a new band, 8 weeks in (six practices) and the drummer (Band leader) has requested that I play only root notes on some songs, this band plays oldies and standards along the lines of Motown r&b and dance standards.

Do you really need an answer?

You joined a band knowing it was cover band and not a collaborative project of original music that primarily plays a style of music particularly known for simple bass lines, and you are arguing with the band leader about what you want to play vs. what the genre calls for.

 

[Polish Thunder]

Fourteen pages and you're all still obsessed with "THE" recording of a particular tune recorded 60 years ago and whethe the bass player on that record played a lot of plain roots - and still no one is willing to consider that - just MAYBE - the band leader doesn't WANT his band's rendition of that song to sound exactly like "THE" record.

Why are you all so afraid of sounding different than one specific group of musicians gathered in one specific studio 60 years ago?

If I heard a band that promotes themselves as an Oldies/Motown band and they came out sounding like this, I would not even make it through the first song (or my first beer).

 

[Downunderwonder]

Fourteen pages and you're all still obsessed with "THE" recording of a particular tune recorded 60 years ago and whethe the bass player on that record played a lot of plain roots - and still no one is willing to consider that - just MAYBE - the band leader doesn't WANT his band's rendition of that song to sound exactly like "THE" record.

Why are you all so afraid of sounding different than one specific group of musicians gathered in one specific studio 60 years ago?

Sounding shite is the concern.

 

[LBS-bass]

Do you really need an answer?

You joined a band knowing it was cover band and not a collaborative project of original music that primarily plays a style of music particularly known for simple bass lines, and you are arguing with the band leader about what you want to play vs. what the genre calls for.

That's actually not what he said. He said that he's playing the lines on the records, but the bandleader wants him to play roots, which is pretty far away from what those genres usually call for.

I'm starting to think there are a lot of people here offering their two cents who have never listened to a Motown tune.

 

[ElBassHombre]

Hope this is the right place for this question. I joined a new band, 8 weeks in (six practices) and the drummer (Band leader) has requested that I play only root notes on some songs, He and I haven't seemed to mesh yet, he started out critical of my timing the first to practices, then moved on to the actual notes I was playing, now this, All very seasoned musicians with incredible ear for music (keyboard and guitar and the sax player has a pretty good ear on his own), but the drummer seems to want to control what I play. FYI I'm out of a rock band, this band plays oldies and standards along the lines of Motown r&b and dance standards. How would you read this situation if it was you? Spare no feelings. TY

 

[DJ Bebop]

That's actually not what he said. He said that he's playing the lines on the records, but the bandleader wants him to play roots, which is pretty far away from what those genres usually call for.

I'm starting to think there are a lot of people here offering their two cents who have never listened to a Motown tune.

Motown, what is that?