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Double Bass New Bass Cab Rec's

A

anonymous02282011

Jun 27, 2007
2,132
9
#1
I need another 10 or 12 to complement the Wizzy10. It's a bit too quiet for those folk/rock gigs that ask for upright.

Ideally, a 12", steel magnet, 4ohm. From my research, nobody has these. The epifani's are all 8ohm, and it seems the only other option is from EA, which is cool, but i'm up for trying something different.

As it stands, I'm leaning towards the EA Mline 12. Not a steel magnet, but it seems like it complement the W10 nicely.

Thoughts?
 
#3
adbass said:
I need another 10 or 12 to complement the Wizzy10. It's a bit too quiet for those folk/rock gigs that ask for upright.

Ideally, a 12", steel magnet, 4ohm. From my research, nobody has these. The epifani's are all 8ohm, and it seems the only other option is from EA, which is cool, but i'm up for trying something different.

As it stands, I'm leaning towards the EA Mline 12. Not a steel magnet, but it seems like it complement the W10 nicely.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
By "steel magnet," I think you are actually referring to a ceramic magnet, as opposed to a neodymium magnet. The driver in the EA Wizzy M-Line uses a ceramic magnet.

Technical details aside, I really like the Wizzy M. It's a great sounding cab.
 
#4
robgrow said:
By "steel magnet," I think you are actually referring to a ceramic magnet, as opposed to a neodymium magnet. The driver in the EA Wizzy M-Line uses a ceramic magnet.

Technical details aside, I really like the Wizzy M. It's a great sounding cab.
Click to expand...

YES. thank you. I thought the wM line was a "neo". Thanks for clearing that up. I'm pretty sure the wizzy M will be the winner . . . . or maybe a Bergantino. Anyone here ever use a Bergantino with DB?
 
#5
Just wondering why the bias for or against the neodymiums?

I have a very nice 2x12 + tweeter cab (Ampeg PB212H) that has neodymiums and is rated at 4 Ohms. It is very light weight (38 lbs.) for the power it handles and the sound it puts out, has wheels and a collapsing hand truck handle. It sounds great with my DB. It's loud enough for outdoor gigs, too. Very clean and neutral with either the Ampeg PB800 or AI Coda. Ampeg also makes a similar cab with 2 10's. Maybe get one of those and let the Wizzy 10 go.....
 
#6
adbass said:
'm pretty sure the wizzy M will be the winner . . . . or maybe a Bergantino. Anyone here ever use a Bergantino with DB?
Click to expand...

I have an original (non M-Line) Wizzy 112 and two Bergantino HT-112s. The Bergs are my favorite small cabs for electric bass ever but I'm not crazy about them for DB. To my ears they sound boxy but boomy and lack response in the upper mids around 1-1.2K, where (to my ear) a lot of "intonation information" resides. Also, due to differences in efficiency and impedance I'm not sure how well an HT-112 would pair with a Wizzy 110 unless you have a stereo power amp.

To be fair to them, my DB (plywood New Standard Cleveland) has a huge bottom end and not a ton of growl, so it could well be that the Bergantinos are accurately reproducing the bass' acoustic character. I've use them with different heads (GK 400RB, Eden WT-400, and Euphonic Audio iAmp800), pickups (Stat-B, BassMax, Underwood, RevSolo) and preamps, and get similar results. There are some on TB who absolutely love the HT-112 on DB, and I'm guessing that they have more focused-sounding basses.

The Wizzy OTOH is ideally suited for the DB. It has a midrange emphasis that (while it may not be totally natural) lets me hear the detailed sound of the bass even in very loud situations. Due to the whizzer cone and lack of crossover components it has a clarity throughout its range (no phase weirdness) that's uncommon among bass cabs. The whizzer also disperses mid and high frequencies well (better than bullet tweeters) so I can hear those frequencies even when I'm standing close to it.

My typical DB rig is the Wizzy 112 and 400RB with a Fishman Pro Platinum preamp. Jazz combo, Western swing, Latin groups, pop songwriter kinds of gigs--not ridiculous volume, and the musicians are listening to one another. In these situations I've never felt the need for a second cabinet (even outdoors), especially when there's a PA.
 
#7
Silversorcerer said:
Just wondering why the bias for or against the neodymiums?
Click to expand...
There's really no good reason to assume that neodymium magnets are better or worse than ceramic (or more correctly ferrite) magnets for use in loudspeakers. At one time, Alnico was widely used for loudspeaker magnets and ceramic was the new kid on the block. Now ceramic (ferrite) magnets are a mature technology with well known properties. Ceramic magnets are fairly easy to make (basically like baking cookies) and are relatively cheap. The main advantage of using Invalid Link Removed for loudspeaker magnets is that it allows making drivers that weigh less than a similar speaker with a conventional ceramic magnet. Neodymium magnets do have some drawbacks, but so do other types of magnets.
 
#8
robgrow said:
There's really no good reason to assume that neodymium magnets are better or worse than ceramic (or more correctly ferrite) magnets for use in loudspeakers.
Click to expand...

robgrow said:
Neodymium magnets do have some drawbacks, but so do other types of magnets.
Click to expand...



Rob,
I really enjoy your intelligent and well reasoned posts. I think I remember that you were once a sound engineer. Regardless, I was wondering if you think that Neo Drivers are not as well suited to Transmission Line Cabinets because, as I understand it they have to have better heat dispersion to operate properly. Do you think that might be the problem that EA has been trying to solve with the NM 208?

Ric
 
#9
A speaker cabinet such as the EA VL-208 uses woofers with very large and heavy ceramic magnets. This is done for a number of reasons including low distortion and good sensitivity. Large heavy ceramic magnet structures can also tolerate heat fairly well, and when you feed a lot of power to the speakers they can and do get quite hot. Even the best dynamic speakers are not terribly efficient. Some electrical power from the amp is converted to sound, but a lot is lost to heat. Unfortunately, Neodymium is not so tolerant of higher temperatures, which is one of its drawbacks.

Although Neodymium has some very good characteristics, replacing a large ceramic magnet on a speaker with a much smaller Neodymium magnet and expecting it to have all the good properties of the larger and heavier magnet is a pretty tall order. I think it's safe to say that this is still an evolving technology.

In general, I don't think that neodymium or ceramic magnets speakers are any more or less suited for use in a transmission line. The problem is getting neodymium magnet speakers with equivalent performance to the ceramic magnet drivers they are replacing.

I should add that Euphonic Audio is currently using 10-inch neodymium drivers in their Wizzy 10, NL-210 and NM-410 cabinets, which are all transmission line designs.

Just for the record, I'm anything but an expert on loudspeakers. I've just been around a long time and can't take much credit for that.
 
#11
I have limited options to try exotic gear around here, but the Eden 112XLT I just bought sight-unseen is better than expected on my EUB - nice midrange clarity and extended lows. The tweeter is a bit hot for the cab and needs to be turned almost off, and they only come in 8 Ohms.
 

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