New bass player using my ideas.

[downunder]

I think this is a cautionary tale. You put time and effort into these tunes and now you’re left with nothing. I think the general consensus in this thread is correct; bass lines are not legally considered songwriting, And without a written agreement in place you’ve got nothing. What you can do is learn from this bitter experience and copyright the tunes for your next project. (Or if you really want to be a dick you could copyright all the tunes That your old band wrote In your name, assuming they haven’t already.) In any case going forward we should all have written song writing agreements in place, even if we’re Not rock stars.

I write with a friend who’s a published songwriter. She writes words and melody but doesn’t know how to play an instrument, so I flesh it out, write bass lines etc. She is very good about copywriting everything and giving me Writer’s credit. Because she knows it’s the best way to prevent misunderstandings down the road.

 

[Llewellen]

I think this is a cautionary tale. You put time and effort into these tunes and now you’re left with nothing. I think the general consensus in this thread is correct; bass lines are not legally considered songwriting, And without a written agreement in place you’ve got nothing. What you can do is learn from this bitter experience and copyright the tunes for your next project. (Or if you really want to be a dick you could copyright all the tunes That your old band wrote In your name, assuming they haven’t already.) In any case going forward we should all have written song writing agreements in place, even if we’re Not rock stars.

I write with a friend who’s a published songwriter. She writes words and melody but doesn’t know how to play an instrument, so I flesh it out, write bass lines etc. She is very good about copywriting everything and giving me Writer’s credit. Because she knows it’s the best way to prevent misunderstandings down the road.

Not to be too picky but there is a distinction to be made between two separate credits and copyrights: co-writer credit (song copyright) and arranger credit (arrangement copyright - if it is sufficiently original and unique). In my respectful opinion, creating bass lines does not count as songwriting.

 

[downunder]

Not to be too picky but there is a distinction to be made between two separate credits and copyrights: co-writer credit (song copyright) and arranger credit (arrangement copyright - if it is sufficiently original and unique). In my respectful opinion, creating bass lines does not count as songwriting.

I think you’re correct. creating bass lines Is not songwriting. However, my understanding is anybody can be listed as a writer on a tune for any reason if all parties agree.

 

[Llewellen]

I think you’re correct. creating bass lines Is not songwriting. However, my understanding is anybody can be listed as a writer on a tune for any reason if all parties agree.

That's correct. Lennon and McCartney are probably the most famous example of that practice, which they continued even when they both acknowledged that one or the other of them had actually written an entire song on their own.

I always advised against the practice and suggested that non-writing contributions could be acknowledged and compensated in some other way (e.g. publishing share).

 

[LukeSlywalker]

Have you tried talking to them about it?

 

[downunder]

That's correct. Lennon and McCartney are probably the most famous example of that practice, which they continued even when they both acknowledged that one or the other of them had actually written an entire song on their own.

I always advised against the practice and suggested that non-writing contributions could be acknowledged and compensated in some other way (e.g. publishing share).

we do it this way I think because we are demoing the songs to try to get “major artist“ interest and get a publishing deal. So right now there’sNo money, we’re doing everything on spec. This is her way of making sure I get compensated without having to trust that I get included in a publishing deal.

 

[Marc DLarosa]

They are now a COVER band. Take pride, and Bass on.
I once had this happen. The NEW bass player was actually technically better than Me (back then, around 1994). His style ruined the band (We had a "deal" wit WB). When He refused to play My lines... I was "invited" back. I declined. They fell apart.


It's all good.

 

[two fingers]

Let it go.

Being mad about it is like drinking poison and expecting THEM to get sick.

They aren't mad or miserable. You are. Let that go. Go be happy with another band. And don't do whatever pissed this band off next time.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Estimate how much you think they might possibly make from the songs and then see if it's worth worrying about. My guess is that you're more upset about being replaced, which is understandable. As long as you're not owed money or still have gear at the rehearsal space, consider it a lesson learned and move on to the next band.

 

[crazyBassClown]

n my respectful opinion, creating bass lines does not count as songwriting.

Another one bites the dust by queen.
That is all.

 

[Llewellen]

Another one bites the dust by queen.
That is all.

Yes, that was a very catchy arrangement for the song

 

[crazyBassClown]

I always advised against the practice and suggested that non-writing contributions could be acknowledged and compensated in some other way (e.g. publishing share).

In a big dollar band it can limit a lot of interband drama if everyone gets paid the same. in a no dollar band who cares.

 

[Llewellen]

In a big dollar band it can limit a lot of interband drama if everyone gets paid the same. in a no dollar band who cares.

It can also create a large scale war when feelings fall out and the actual songwriters realize what they have done (given away).

 

[crazyBassClown]

Yes, that was a very catchy arrangement for the song

Actually that bassline is unique enough and such a large part of the song that it would be entitled to a song writers credit. There are many other examples, but yes most wouldn't be.
Hers a deep question for ya.
If Ice ice baby stole the bassline from under pressure does he need to pay royalties and how can he if the bassline is not copyrightable?

 

[4dog]

They are now a COVER band. Take pride, and Bass on.
I once had this happen. The NEW bass player was actually technically better than Me (back then, around 1994). His style ruined the band (We had a "deal" wit WB). When He refused to play My lines... I was "invited" back. I declined. They fell apart.


It's all good.

with the exception of a "deal"... same thing happened to me...better bassist took my spot..(i quit) .... and he HAD to play my lines because they were integral parts to the songs....it happens

 

[Llewellen]

Actually that bassline is unique enough and such a large part of the song that it would be entitled to a song writers credit. There are many other examples, but yes most wouldn't be.
Hers a deep question for ya.
If Ice ice baby stole the bassline from under pressure does he need to pay royalties and how can he if the bassline is not copyrightable?

Simple. Even if the notes of the bass line are not sufficiently unique and original to warrant a copyright, the sound recording of the notes has its own copyright and cannot be sampled without permission.

 

[crazyBassClown]

Simple. Even if the notes of the bass line are not sufficiently unique and original to warrant a copyright, the sound recording of the notes has its own copyright and cannot be sampled without permission.

But it wasn't sampled.

 

[frankie5string]

That's a bit different.

John wrote the bass line (based on a Chic tune), the chord progression, most of the lyrics, and arranged that song. He told Brian May what he wanted him to do. The only thing he didn't do was guide Freddie on how to sing it. Deacon and Bernard Edwards have also alluded to the baseline being inspired by another very popular tune...

Same thing as "My Best Friend" He wrote the entire song.

He wasn't just making up bass parts for those songs.

Another one bites the dust by queen.
That is all.

 

[Llewellen]

But it wasn't sampled.

Then I dunno. Before retiring I represented a number of songwriters and film composers. I became somewhat of a hawk on their behalf. I saw too many instances of a songwriter/recording artist going into the studio and coming out with a producer claiming co-writer credits for what I regarded as simply being arrangements, albeit very creative arrangements.

It was always a very tough thing to find the balance between protecting business affairs and legal interests, and not stifling or getting in the way of free-flowing creativity. Often, these things only came to an acrimonious head when their had been a terminal falling out between the parties.

 

[Mushroo]

Actually that bassline is unique enough and such a large part of the song that it would be entitled to a song writers credit.

"Another One Bites the Dust" is credited 100% to Deacon as the sole songwriter.

If Ice ice baby stole the bassline from under pressure does he need to pay royalties and how can he if the bassline is not copyrightable?

Vanilla Ice tried to get around this by adding 1 note to the bass line (on the "and" of 4) but in the end, he settled out of court for an undisclosed sum, and re-releases of the song are co-credited to Bowie and all 4 members of Queen.

When I first started getting into music, sampling wasn't considered "stealing" and artists didn't typically get permission. I remember there was a precedent-setting case involving De La Soul's 1989 "Three Feet High and Rising" that changed the legal landscape.