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New Bass, strings hitting 20th fret after shim / setup

B

Bassepher

Jan 4, 2024
1
2
Germany
#1
Hey TB!,
I recently purchased a MIM Fender P-Bass that I had trouble setting a low action on because the bridge saddles wouldn't go any lower.

Took it to a local luthier and when he ran into the same issue he inserted a small (0.5mm) shim veneer strip towards the body of the Bass. Solved the issue and managed to get a nice low action.

I was pretty happy at first but now about a week later I notice that when I'm playing a little more aggressive that once I fret around the 4th/5th fret or higher, my string is hitting the 20th fret leading to an unpleasant clanking sound. Problem is that now the bridge saddles are all the way up with no more room to go so I can't heighten the action that way.

I put a straight edge on the neck and it's pretty straight, maybe a tiny bit up-bowed.
What would be my best course of action here? Remove the shim?
I kinda wanna avoid a second trip to the luthier.
 
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#2
Bassepher said:
Hey TB!,
I recently purchased a MIM Fender P-Bass that I had trouble setting a low action on because the bridge saddles wouldn't go any lower.

Took it to a local luthier and when he ran into the same issue he inserted a small (0.5mm) shim veneer strip towards the body of the Bass. Solved the issue and managed to get a nice low action.

I was pretty happy at first but now about a week later I notice that when I'm playing a little more aggressive that once I fret around the 4th/5th fret or higher, my string is hitting the 20th fret leading to an unpleasant clanking sound. Problem is that now the bridge saddles are all the way up with no more room to go so I can't heighten the action that way.

I put a straight edge on the neck and it's pretty straight, maybe a tiny bit up-bowed.
What would be my best course of action here? Remove the shim?
I kinda wanna avoid a second trip to the luthier.
Click to expand...
Thinner shim?
 
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#3
Bassepher said:
...now the bridge saddles are all the way up with no more room to go so I can't heighten the action that way.

I put a straight edge on the neck and it's pretty straight, maybe a tiny bit up-bowed.
What would be my best course of action here? Remove the shim?
I kinda wanna avoid a second trip to the luthier.
Click to expand...

You mean no relief, perhaps even "leaning back"?

Riis
 
#4
Maybe add some relief, or maybe the shim changed the angle of the neck and it’s now tilting too far back, you could try a full pocket shim to see if your neck angle isn’t the factor or try to move the current shim to the the top of the pocket instead of at the heel of the pocket, IDK I just woke up and need to shake out the cobwebs so I could be way off base. :)
 
#5
Bassepher said:
Hey TB!,
I recently purchased a MIM Fender P-Bass that I had trouble setting a low action on because the bridge saddles wouldn't go any lower.

Took it to a local luthier and when he ran into the same issue he inserted a small (0.5mm) shim veneer strip towards the body of the Bass. Solved the issue and managed to get a nice low action.

I was pretty happy at first but now about a week later I notice that when I'm playing a little more aggressive that once I fret around the 4th/5th fret or higher, my string is hitting the 20th fret leading to an unpleasant clanking sound. Problem is that now the bridge saddles are all the way up with no more room to go so I can't heighten the action that way.

I put a straight edge on the neck and it's pretty straight, maybe a tiny bit up-bowed.
What would be my best course of action here? Remove the shim?
I kinda wanna avoid a second trip to the luthier.
Click to expand...

You can't have it both ways. Either you play with a lighter touch and have a nice low action, or get to dig in but with a higher action. You have to decide which you want. I'd take the low action and let the amp do the work.
 
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#7
C Stone said:
Maybe add some relief, or maybe the shim changed the angle of the neck and it’s now tilting too far back, you could try a full pocket shim to see if your neck angle isn’t the factor or try to move the current shim to the the top of the pocket instead of at the heel of the pocket, IDK I just woke up and need to shake out the cobwebs so I could be way off base. :)
Click to expand...
Not picking on anyone here, but it's a chance to correct a misunderstanding that some people have about neck angle.

There are two elements that come into play when considering neck angle when it comes to fret buzz; the plane of the neck, the plane of the strings which is controlled by the height of the bridge. Let's say these are the three parts, red line for the neck plane, blue line for the string plane and green line for the bridge.

upload_2024-1-5_12-9-21.png


Now if you change the neck angle and adjust the bridge to give the same string height you end up with this:

upload_2024-1-5_12-11-54.png


There's absolutely no difference to the string-to-neck relationship. The only difference is that the bridge is higher. Adding a shim will not cause the strings to fret out on the upper frets if you maintain the string-to-neck height. Fretting out on the upper frets means that the bridge is too low. It may be too low to compensate for a high fret or a ski jump, but those conditions have nothing to do with a shim.
 

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#8
So the bridge barrels were bottomed out, the tech added a shim changing the necks angle and now the re-adjusted barrels height is maxed out to the point where the OP says they can’t go any higher to compensate enough for the new angle. Is your point that a ski jump or high fret that was uncovered after the set-up is the issue then? Suggestions?
 
#9
C Stone said:
So the bridge barrels were bottomed out, the tech added a shim changing the necks angle and now the re-adjusted barrels height is maxed out to the point where the OP says they can’t go any higher to compensate enough for the new angle, so is your point that a ski jump or high fret that was uncovered after set-up is this the issue then?
Click to expand...
Could be. If the bridge is now as high as it will go, the shim is too big. That's quite a thick shim for use as a partial - I'd use about half that thickness. There still might be a high fret or ski jump, but I would start by getting enough string height to avoid buzz, then if the height seemed excessive I would look for high frets and/or ski jump.
 
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#10
My gut tells me you should lose the shim and start with the understanding that sissy kathy pointed out “You can't have it both ways. Either you play with a lighter touch and have a nice low action, or get to dig in but with a higher action.”

Turnaround may have missed the line about the bridge height being maxed out. His suggestion of a thinner shim
will most likely do it giving you some adjustment at the bridge to compensate for the necks new angle. You could also just remove it altogether and start with a fresh set-up if you plan on “digging in” a bit more or just try a thinner shim, I think either choice may get you there.
 
#11
C Stone said:
Turnaround may have missed the line about the bridge height being maxed out.
Click to expand...
Not at all. That's exactly why I said that it needed a thinner shim. But you must have missed the part about the action being too high with the saddles bottomed out... "I had trouble setting a low action on because the bridge saddles wouldn't go any lower". So removing the shim entirely won't help.
 
#12
That was before the OP took it for a set-up and before the shim, after he tried a more aggressive playing style which said resulted in an unpleasant clank on 20th.

If the shim causes the neck to angle back so far that a bridge adjustment can’t compensate enough to make the strings parallel to the board causing the 20th’s fret unpleasant clank it suggests the shim is most likely the culprit unless as you mentioned ski jump or high fret.
 

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