New Cab: Sunn 115S (JBL Questions)

[e-flat]

So I picked up an old Sunn 115S cab at my local shop, and I really dig it. I'm running it with a PLUSH 1000S tube head for a beefed up B15 sort of rig.

Upon taking off the front grill of the cab, I discovered that the speaker appears to have been replaced with what appears (based on the cone & dust cover) to be a JBL.

I'll pull the speaker this weekend to check the type, but am I correct in thinking that this is probably a 130 type? Either a D130, E130 or K130?

Smooth cone, aluminum dustcap, 15 inch

Here are some (crappy iphone) pics:

CONE

RIG

PLUSH GUTS

 

[Korladis]

More likely a D140 or K140.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

What he said, D140. Optional upgrade. I've been looking for one of these locally for 5 yrs. the perfect compliment to a 200S yea I know the 215 is more perfect, but I like these a lot. The first time I saw one was in about 66-67'. I went to an Armory dance, (anyone remember those?) the Kingsmen of Louie Louie fame were playing. I thought it was the best a bass could ever sound. Is this the one on CL recently? If I lived closer I would have bought it.

 

[e-flat]

What he said, D140. Optional upgrade. I've been looking for one of these locally for 5 yrs. the perfect compliment to a 200S yea I know the 215 is more perfect, but I like these a lot. The first time I saw one was in about 66-67'. I went to an Armory dance, (anyone remember those?) the Kingsmen of Louie Louie fame were playing. I thought it was the best a bass could ever sound. Is this the one on CL recently? If I lived closer I would have bought it.

Hey Kirk,
This was picked up in my local guitar shop in central Washington ... $250 out the door. I thought it was a good deal & couldn't pass it up. Once I plugged into it I was sold. I played an Eden 4X10, two Bag End cabs (12 and a 15) and two SWR cabs that same day. This is the one that hit home with me. Warm & deep & full but with nice definition & great punch.

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll let you know what I find when I pull the speaker to check the model!

 

[Kirk Bryant]

Your Plush is a 100 watt amp, the JBL D140F is rated for 150 watts IIRC. Still this isn't nearly as robust as a modern speaker. You need to be very aware of not pushing it too hard. Especially if you use distortion and effects. If you want to get more volume out of your cab than the JBL puts out comfortably you might consider a speaker like an Eminence 3015 or a Faital 15PR400. I'm just guessing on those being a decent match up so if you want to get technical you'll need to consult a modeling program or some of our resident cab gurus. The modern speakers will take a lot more watts and abuse than the vintage JBL. IMHO, YMMV etc.

 

[agedhorse]

Not a 140, wrong cone type.

 

[edbass]

If it's an OEM D/K/E JBL, As agedhorse says it's a 130 not a 140. If it's a D/K/E motor and it's labeled as a 140, its been re-coned. Not that the labeling matters, the only difference between the 130 and 140 D/K/E series drivers is the cone/VC assemblies; the motors and frames are identical and the cone assemblies are interchangeable.
The D Series was rated for about 75 watts, the K series by virtue of their more robust surrounds and larger gap VC's were rated at around 100. Keep in mind that in those days a 100 watt amplifier was considered a monster.

The 115S cab only came with a factory OE "Sunn Transducer", probably CTS (although some were manufactured elsewhere), and the upgrades were labeled 115M (Sunn Magna driver) and 115V (Cerwin Vega driver).
By the time the 115S/M/V cabs were manufactured Sunn was owned by Hartzell, and JBL was no longer offered as a Sunn OE upgrade.

There's the unusual chance that the OP's cab is a rare example of a Hartzell Sunn cab custom ordered with a JBL (or Altec), but again they were rare and were usually only special built for endorsement artists.
However, often end users replaced the OEM Sunn drivers with a JBL or other premium speaker, and this is probably more likely; IF it's indeed a JBL in there. The factory standard 115S Sunn Transducers (CTS) also had the aluminum dome.

Pull that sucker out and have a look!

 

[e-flat]

If it's an OEM D/K/E JBL, As agedhorse says it's a 130 not a 140. If it's a D/K/E motor and it's labeled as a 140, its been re-coned. Not that the labeling matters, the only difference between the 130 and 140 D/K/E series drivers is the cone/VC assemblies; the motors and frames are identical and the cone assemblies are interchangeable.
The D Series was rated for about 75 watts, the K series by virtue of their more robust surrounds and larger gap VC's were rated at around 100. Keep in mind that in those days a 100 watt amplifier was considered a monster.

The 115S cab only came with a factory OE "Sunn Transducer", probably CTS (although some were manufactured elsewhere), and the upgrades were labeled 115M (Sunn Magna driver) and 115V (Cerwin Vega driver).
By the time the 115S/M/V cabs were manufactured Sunn was owned by Hartzell, and JBL was no longer offered as a Sunn OE upgrade.

There's the unusual chance that the OP's cab is a rare example of a Hartzell Sunn cab custom ordered with a JBL (or Altec), but again they were rare and were usually only special built for endorsement artists.
However, often end users replaced the OEM Sunn drivers with a JBL or other premium speaker, and this is probably more likely; IF it's indeed a JBL in there. The factory standard 115S Sunn Transducers (CTS) also had the aluminum dome.

Pull that sucker out and have a look!

Yep, turns out it's a K130!

The spec sheet I found for the K Series claimed a 250 watt power handling for the K130 though.... Is it better to keep it around 100 watts?

Either way, it's pretty damn efficient and doesn't take much juice to get it moving. Should be a good match for this Plush head.

Thanks for your help guys!

 

[agedhorse]

The winding height is also different between the 130 and 140.

The K-130 does not safely handle 250 watts, at least not the using the same rating metrics. Off the top of my head, closer to 150 watts, but mechanical limitations may be more of a problem.

 

[bassliner50]

I have and still occasionally use (when outdoors) that same Sunn cab. (I am the original owner. I'm that old) The original Sunn 15' driver gave up the ghost decades ago. I subsequently replaced it with a JBL D140F. that JBL lasted the better part of 20 years. It is now stored away in my basement and in need of a reconing job. Presently I have an Electro Voice 15b, in the Sunn which is bullet proof but never sounded quite as good as the JBL D140F. ....BTW, the cab is heavy as hell.

 

[Korladis]

Yeah... probably mechanically limited to fairly low wattage. Probably best to use it with relatively low power tube amps. Those things sound good and are pretty high in sensitivity, as I recall.

 

[DavC]

used those back in " the day " in a couple 2 x 15 cabs ...

 

[agedhorse]

I looked the K-130 up, and I remember correctly. It is rated at 125 watts "RMS", 250 program (or mechanical) but there are significant mechanical limitations for MI use as described in their OEM speaker power handling whitepaper.

That's a very short VC height relative to the gap depth (one reason for the high sensitivity).

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Easy way to tell the various 130 and 140's apart is that the 140 has the ridged cone for better stability playing bass. The 130's were not originally bass speakers but what they called "full orchestra speakers. The 130F series were the first JBL 15's designed specifically for bass. Fender was their biggest customer and they kept having to replace them so it was back to the drawing board. Rather than come up with a new number, they just added F for Fender since Fender was buying most of them and then added the 140 with the ridged cone. JBL also made some130's for Sunn that they labeled as Sunn speakers with a different number.

 

[agedhorse]

The 130F's work fine in a 50 watt bass amp, even a 100 watt bass amp with limited FL extension unless you run distortion.

The 140 is a heavier, stiffer cone, better LF extension (in a suitable ported cab), slightly longer VC, copper instead of aluminum VC material, etc.

 

[Killer Of Giants]

The 130F's work fine in a 50 watt bass amp, even a 100 watt bass amp with limited FL extension unless you run distortion.

The 140 is a heavier, stiffer cone, better LF extension (in a suitable ported cab), slightly longer VC, copper instead of aluminum VC material, etc.

Dude, i love your replies to these tech issues!

 

[e-flat]

You guys have been EXTREMELY helpful. Thank you!

I've had a chance to put this cab through it's paces, and it is simply awesome. The K130 has tremendous clarity and plenty of lows in this cab. (For my taste...)

Like I mentioned earlier, my goal with this rig was to cop a "B15 plus a bit more" vibe, and this signal chain is really giving me the goods:

Jazz or P Bass > Tech 21 VT Bass DI (as preamp / tone shaper) > Bearfoot Pale Green Compressor > Plush 1000S > K130

Due to the great sensitivity of the speaker, I don't see myself ever needing to run this Plush head beyond about 1/3 of the way up on the volume knob--- it's going to be a great little rig for recording, low to medium volume gigs, etc.

Again, thanks for the input!