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New competition for GK's MB200??? Traynor Small Block!
- Thread starter MuthaFunk
- Start date
Excellent, thanks for the heads up. Not exactly my ideal, but close. I like the GK curve a bit better as it seems to work better for doubling on upright and electric. The GK contour is a bit more narrow and doesn't goose the low end as much(at least on the newer MB heads). However, at the price point of the Traynor I don't know if it can be beat. Pretty cool little head!
This was the knob that interested me the most-i haven't been sold on class d amps yet because I don't hear a lot of low end on them...plenty of low mids, but not a lot of lows. How would you rate that function on the amp? Does it give the perception of stronger lows?
OK, today Long & McQuade got the Traynor SB200H in for me to have a look at and, with nobody in the store on a Thursday afternoon, I had the opportunity to do an extended A/B with it and the GK MB200. It was quite enlightening.
As you can see from the photos below, the Traynor is actually substantially larger than the GK, at least an inch in each direction. The Traynor's size reminded me of my GK MB500. The weight felt about the same for both these units but, because of the larger size and the lever effect, the Traynor felt bigger, a bit more awkward in the hand, and less able to be stuffed into a small gig bag. (The manuals say that the GK is 2 lbs and the Traynor 1.5 lbs, but the latter number doesn't jibe with my impressions. I didn't have scales with me.) The fit and finish on the GK is better overall. The Traynor has sharp side edges where the panels attach rather than the round, folded corners on the GK. The Traynor's front panel is pretty, with the Traynor logo below the knobs being white on a chromed strip. The knobs felt more fragile and a bit wobblier than those on the GK. The broad base of the GK knobs gives them a satisfying, stable feel. Whether they're more rugged against damage is harder to tell, but my guess is that the recessing helps. There looks to be screwholes on the side of the GK for rackmounting (?). Maybe two of these puppies side-by-side in two rack spaces? There's none on the Traynor. I'd have to say that, overall, the Traynor felt more like a prototype, more pieced together, while the GK felt like it got a bit more industrial design. YMMV.
The extra width on the Traynor front panel allows for the Passive and Active (-6 db) inputs to be separate 1/4" jacks rather than the -10 db switch on the GK. There is a mute button on the Traynor front panel and a tuner out on the back, so that's nice. The preamp controls are identical on both, but very different in practice, and the Traynor has its "Low Enhance" knob versus the Contour mini-switch on the GK (more on these below).
On the back panel, the GK has a Speakon-only port while the Traynor has a Speakon-1/4" hybrid plug. Both have Aux In (1/8" on the GK, 1/4" on the Traynor). Both go into the power amp section after the pre-amp, so potentially useful with an external pre-amp. The Traynor recognizes a mono 1/4" signal in, which is convenient; you'd need an 1/8" stereo to 1/4" mono adapter for the GK which might be both flimsy and a nuisance but it might work for a preamp. If you're using a CD/iPod in for practice, then the GK is more convenient. The Traynor has space for a separate headphones jack which mutes the other outputs. The GK switches between line out and phones. I expect that the line out could be used as a tuner out. Both have a DI out which can be pre/post the preamp; only the Traynor has a ground lift. The GK's power button is on the front with the same pleasing colour display as on its bigger brothers. The Traynor's switch is on the back with a pilot light on the front. The fans in both were very quiet in a quiet store.
To try them out for sound, we plugged both into an 8 ohm Traynor TC410 cabinet that I've used before in backline set-ups: they can get loud and, while a bit barky, this cab wasn't too bad a test bed. The bass was an Ibanez 1205E Premium with Nordstrand pickups. I went back and forth a few times to convince myself of what I was hearing. Overall, the GK was very familiar (I still have an use a 400RB from the 80s), quite hifi in character and rather smooth. The EQ points were sensible and the knobs gave a modest +/- change in the mids and bass, and a bigger plus in the highs. The manual says +/- 6 dB in the mids, +10 in the bass, +14 in the treble. The contour switch, with its one choice gave the Ibby a very nice scooped character if you like that sort of thing. No surprises for me. The Traynor by contrast had some real bite to it, and I could see a rock player finding much to appreciate here. I'm a jazz/blues guy mostly so it was a poorer fit for me. The EQ points are quite different (Bass : 50 Hz, L Mid: 400 Hz, H Mid: 1 kHz, Treble: 8 kHz) vs 60 Hz, 250 Hz, 1 kHz, and 7kHz for the GK. Most startling was that the Traynor goes +/- 15 dB on each point. That's a *huge* range and you can get some pretty startling tones that way. With the GK you mould the tone; with the Traynor you can outright carve it. The Low Expander control didn't really give me much satisfaction: as well as the low mid contour promised in the manual, it seemed to me to substantially reduce high frequencies once you got past noon, muffling the notes. I also didn't get much of a sense of the expanded bass promised by the manual for this effect. For me, this knob produced some artificial and not terribly helpful changes. Again, YMMV.
So, how loud were they? Well the Traynor was loudish with a distinctly punchy/barky character. Once you went past noon on the gain, though, there wasn't much change in volume nor much change in the character of the sound (break-up, distortion of any kind). The manual speaks of the possibility of "crunch distortion" but I didn't really hear that in my set-up. It certainly wasn't pushing the 410 cab. By contrast, the GK was *loud* with the characteristic smooth, warmish GK character. Volume continued to rise around the gain dial and by the time you got past two o'clock, it was rattling the pants out of the 410. Again, not much sense of extra distortion, etc. as you cranked the gain. It was just real loud.
In the end, these are two quite different beasts. The GK is smaller, warmer, more refined in fit/finish, and quite a bit louder. Tone sculpting is effective but modest in extent. Jazz and blues players will like it, as will anyone who likes that characteristic GK sound. The ins/outs are constrained by the size of the unit, the 1/8" AUX IN and the absence of the 1/4" speaker out the most constraining. The Traynor is bigger and less bag-convenient but no heavier, less polished in its package, brasher in character, and not as loud. Tone sculpting can be huge but even with the mids pulled back, there is a punchiness to the sound that rock and metal players will enjoy. The Low Expander baffles me. With the larger chassis, there are are more ins/outs including a separate passive/active input jacks, a MUTE switch, separate headphone and tuner outs, and a ground lift for the DI.
These two are an interesting choice. At L&M, the price of the GK MB200 has been jacked to $340 CDN just as the Traynor SB200H was introduced at $300 CDN. Given that L&M owns Traynor/Yorkville, that's no coincidence I'm thinking.
Hope this helps you guys.
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As you can see from the photos below, the Traynor is actually substantially larger than the GK, at least an inch in each direction. The Traynor's size reminded me of my GK MB500. The weight felt about the same for both these units but, because of the larger size and the lever effect, the Traynor felt bigger, a bit more awkward in the hand, and less able to be stuffed into a small gig bag. (The manuals say that the GK is 2 lbs and the Traynor 1.5 lbs, but the latter number doesn't jibe with my impressions. I didn't have scales with me.) The fit and finish on the GK is better overall. The Traynor has sharp side edges where the panels attach rather than the round, folded corners on the GK. The Traynor's front panel is pretty, with the Traynor logo below the knobs being white on a chromed strip. The knobs felt more fragile and a bit wobblier than those on the GK. The broad base of the GK knobs gives them a satisfying, stable feel. Whether they're more rugged against damage is harder to tell, but my guess is that the recessing helps. There looks to be screwholes on the side of the GK for rackmounting (?). Maybe two of these puppies side-by-side in two rack spaces? There's none on the Traynor. I'd have to say that, overall, the Traynor felt more like a prototype, more pieced together, while the GK felt like it got a bit more industrial design. YMMV.
The extra width on the Traynor front panel allows for the Passive and Active (-6 db) inputs to be separate 1/4" jacks rather than the -10 db switch on the GK. There is a mute button on the Traynor front panel and a tuner out on the back, so that's nice. The preamp controls are identical on both, but very different in practice, and the Traynor has its "Low Enhance" knob versus the Contour mini-switch on the GK (more on these below).
On the back panel, the GK has a Speakon-only port while the Traynor has a Speakon-1/4" hybrid plug. Both have Aux In (1/8" on the GK, 1/4" on the Traynor). Both go into the power amp section after the pre-amp, so potentially useful with an external pre-amp. The Traynor recognizes a mono 1/4" signal in, which is convenient; you'd need an 1/8" stereo to 1/4" mono adapter for the GK which might be both flimsy and a nuisance but it might work for a preamp. If you're using a CD/iPod in for practice, then the GK is more convenient. The Traynor has space for a separate headphones jack which mutes the other outputs. The GK switches between line out and phones. I expect that the line out could be used as a tuner out. Both have a DI out which can be pre/post the preamp; only the Traynor has a ground lift. The GK's power button is on the front with the same pleasing colour display as on its bigger brothers. The Traynor's switch is on the back with a pilot light on the front. The fans in both were very quiet in a quiet store.
To try them out for sound, we plugged both into an 8 ohm Traynor TC410 cabinet that I've used before in backline set-ups: they can get loud and, while a bit barky, this cab wasn't too bad a test bed. The bass was an Ibanez 1205E Premium with Nordstrand pickups. I went back and forth a few times to convince myself of what I was hearing. Overall, the GK was very familiar (I still have an use a 400RB from the 80s), quite hifi in character and rather smooth. The EQ points were sensible and the knobs gave a modest +/- change in the mids and bass, and a bigger plus in the highs. The manual says +/- 6 dB in the mids, +10 in the bass, +14 in the treble. The contour switch, with its one choice gave the Ibby a very nice scooped character if you like that sort of thing. No surprises for me. The Traynor by contrast had some real bite to it, and I could see a rock player finding much to appreciate here. I'm a jazz/blues guy mostly so it was a poorer fit for me. The EQ points are quite different (Bass : 50 Hz, L Mid: 400 Hz, H Mid: 1 kHz, Treble: 8 kHz) vs 60 Hz, 250 Hz, 1 kHz, and 7kHz for the GK. Most startling was that the Traynor goes +/- 15 dB on each point. That's a *huge* range and you can get some pretty startling tones that way. With the GK you mould the tone; with the Traynor you can outright carve it. The Low Expander control didn't really give me much satisfaction: as well as the low mid contour promised in the manual, it seemed to me to substantially reduce high frequencies once you got past noon, muffling the notes. I also didn't get much of a sense of the expanded bass promised by the manual for this effect. For me, this knob produced some artificial and not terribly helpful changes. Again, YMMV.
So, how loud were they? Well the Traynor was loudish with a distinctly punchy/barky character. Once you went past noon on the gain, though, there wasn't much change in volume nor much change in the character of the sound (break-up, distortion of any kind). The manual speaks of the possibility of "crunch distortion" but I didn't really hear that in my set-up. It certainly wasn't pushing the 410 cab. By contrast, the GK was *loud* with the characteristic smooth, warmish GK character. Volume continued to rise around the gain dial and by the time you got past two o'clock, it was rattling the pants out of the 410. Again, not much sense of extra distortion, etc. as you cranked the gain. It was just real loud.
In the end, these are two quite different beasts. The GK is smaller, warmer, more refined in fit/finish, and quite a bit louder. Tone sculpting is effective but modest in extent. Jazz and blues players will like it, as will anyone who likes that characteristic GK sound. The ins/outs are constrained by the size of the unit, the 1/8" AUX IN and the absence of the 1/4" speaker out the most constraining. The Traynor is bigger and less bag-convenient but no heavier, less polished in its package, brasher in character, and not as loud. Tone sculpting can be huge but even with the mids pulled back, there is a punchiness to the sound that rock and metal players will enjoy. The Low Expander baffles me. With the larger chassis, there are are more ins/outs including a separate passive/active input jacks, a MUTE switch, separate headphone and tuner outs, and a ground lift for the DI.
These two are an interesting choice. At L&M, the price of the GK MB200 has been jacked to $340 CDN just as the Traynor SB200H was introduced at $300 CDN. Given that L&M owns Traynor/Yorkville, that's no coincidence I'm thinking.
Hope this helps you guys.
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Excellent review
I just got mine yesterday (Wed) (first one in BC...cool) and since my neighbours were home I only got to try it through the headphones. But I did A/B it with my GK MGFusion 500......yes, I know, it's not the MB200.....The Fusion won on all counts other than the Aux. In which it doesn't have......if it did I would not have bothered looking for anything else......
I still really like the Traynor, great rock/metal tone and I agree completely with jmlee's review all the way.......
So today I got to plug it into my cabs (2 X112 AudioKinesis ThunderTots and a 112+L 4 ohm Schroeder.......A/B/C'd the Traynor against the Fusion and my Markbass LMII......
Both the Fusion and MarkBass are smoother but I really enjoyed the Traynor's tone....punchy and aggressive and with flats it was really nice....I'm terrible at describing tone.....jmlee does it beautifully.......
I was thinking that I'd keep the Traynor and sell either the Fusion or the LMII but all three have their own voicing and don't know if 200 watts is enough so will hopefully have a gig or a jam where I can try it out in a small/medium bar....don't know if it's loud enough or what happens when the gain/volume goes past 3......I found the Low Expander pretty much useless too I would have preferred a master volume instead and then maybe the gain would have given some break up but all in all it's a great little head for the money and content value.....DI, mute, send & return, headphone, Aux In.....etc......
Can't really afford to keep all 3 heads so one will have to go.....which one? I really don't know yet.....
ps. I tried it with an active bass and got some very nice break up......also got a nice break up with my Hofner Club Bass but then that bass just snarls
I just got mine yesterday (Wed) (first one in BC...cool) and since my neighbours were home I only got to try it through the headphones. But I did A/B it with my GK MGFusion 500......yes, I know, it's not the MB200.....The Fusion won on all counts other than the Aux. In which it doesn't have......if it did I would not have bothered looking for anything else......
I still really like the Traynor, great rock/metal tone and I agree completely with jmlee's review all the way.......
So today I got to plug it into my cabs (2 X112 AudioKinesis ThunderTots and a 112+L 4 ohm Schroeder.......A/B/C'd the Traynor against the Fusion and my Markbass LMII......
Both the Fusion and MarkBass are smoother but I really enjoyed the Traynor's tone....punchy and aggressive and with flats it was really nice....I'm terrible at describing tone.....jmlee does it beautifully.......
I was thinking that I'd keep the Traynor and sell either the Fusion or the LMII but all three have their own voicing and don't know if 200 watts is enough so will hopefully have a gig or a jam where I can try it out in a small/medium bar....don't know if it's loud enough or what happens when the gain/volume goes past 3......I found the Low Expander pretty much useless too I would have preferred a master volume instead and then maybe the gain would have given some break up but all in all it's a great little head for the money and content value.....DI, mute, send & return, headphone, Aux In.....etc......
Can't really afford to keep all 3 heads so one will have to go.....which one? I really don't know yet.....
ps. I tried it with an active bass and got some very nice break up......also got a nice break up with my Hofner Club Bass but then that bass just snarls
I'll bring the Traynor to a jam this weekend (or next) and see how it works out.....but I think I'm keeping the Fusion and the LMII
So, the Aux in on the Traynor is mono only ? I own the GK MB200, and use stereo 1/8 t0 1/4 adapter, and it works fine. Wonder why mono only for the Traynor ?
Ok, strange thing happened tonight
I brought the Small Block at a jam I usually go to....the bass player usually has a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0T combo but he couldn't make it tonight....so we used the bar's bass combo....Fender Bassman 200 combo....so I piggy back the head into the combo bypassing it's pre and it's sounding OK then the jam starts and I can't hear the bass, I turn it up almost at Max (I never do this) and it's barely audible and it's clipping so I unplug everything very quickly and continue with the Bassman for the rest of the night.......even if the combo was an 8 ohm, 200 watts should have been audible, it's not that big of a bar.....very unhappy with this......so next weekend I'll bring my cabs with the Small Block and see if that's better.....otherwise it's going back to L & M.....
I brought the Small Block at a jam I usually go to....the bass player usually has a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0T combo but he couldn't make it tonight....so we used the bar's bass combo....Fender Bassman 200 combo....so I piggy back the head into the combo bypassing it's pre and it's sounding OK then the jam starts and I can't hear the bass, I turn it up almost at Max (I never do this) and it's barely audible and it's clipping so I unplug everything very quickly and continue with the Bassman for the rest of the night.......even if the combo was an 8 ohm, 200 watts should have been audible, it's not that big of a bar.....very unhappy with this......so next weekend I'll bring my cabs with the Small Block and see if that's better.....otherwise it's going back to L & M.....
Whoa...can't figure out what you plugged into what. Can you clarify all the connections? Thanks!
it was plugged in the S&R in the back of the Bassman combo, bypassing the combo's pre......it was working but once all the other instruments started it was barely audible over the other instruments......doesn't matter cause I don't plan on doing that again (never have before anyway)......I just didn't feel like bringing my cabs to the jam but I guess I'll have to next week....
I did try the Aux In and headphones tonight by putting my music on my PC and plugging in my bass and rehearsing some songs.....worked quite well but if it's the only use I get out of it then a $50 2 channel mixer is a better buy.....
Still like the tone of the Small Block but I'll have to try it properly in a small to medium sized bar to see if it stays.....has anyone gigged it yet?
I did try the Aux In and headphones tonight by putting my music on my PC and plugging in my bass and rehearsing some songs.....worked quite well but if it's the only use I get out of it then a $50 2 channel mixer is a better buy.....
Still like the tone of the Small Block but I'll have to try it properly in a small to medium sized bar to see if it stays.....has anyone gigged it yet?
Ok, you all have my attention. I like the 2 inputs on the front and the aux in. Lets hear some more user reviews.
What output on the Traynor did you plug into the return on the Bassman? The speaker out (not good), headphones (not good but maybe better), tuner (OK but likely before the pre-amp), or DI out with an XLR to 1/4" balanced adapter (best choice)? If it was anything other than the last one, the results would have been anything from unsatisfactory to dreadful. That's where the 1/4" Line Out on the G-K is such an advantage in terms of using the head as a pre-amp.
This sounds like user error to me and has nothing to do with the performance of the Traynor. The combo most likely wasn't suited to the venue or gig and using the Traynor as just a pre-amp isn't really an evaluation of it's performance in that scenario. Try it out with a standard 4 ohm cab or two 8 ohm cabs and I think you'll be much more pleased with the result.
) those numbers seem to be a bit off.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
