Sounds like you've got it figured out. Tread lightly, and have fun.
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New cover band
- Thread starter ToneMonkey
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- band cover cover band
Sounds like you've got it figured out. Tread lightly, and have fun.
Playing a given note 1/8 note sooner than the down beat. It's sometimes notated with a caret symbol ahead of the chord. Like ^C. I experience it more in some contexts than in others. Some bands do a lot of it and you have to be able to read and deal with it on the fly or you're out the door.
Thanks! That makes sense...and, as it has had zero application in the humble stuff I play, I can see why I didn't recognize the term. Perhaps your bandmates will catch on quicker, since you are playing things where it matters.
if the last line in a post is 'sorry i just needed to vent' or some other way of saying you dont want a reply then the delete key is more appropriate than the post key
LOL. Who knew the phrase "music theory" was such a lightening rod for criticism. I sure won't make that mistake again.
I guess I'm being too self-referential here, but I personally try to never directly tell someone else what to think, say or do. It's a bit of a personal credo for me. If asked, I may suggest by saying, "if I were in your shoes, this is what I'd think about..." I've also learned over the years that trying to fix someone's problems rather than merely listen to them can in some cases irritate the person speaking. This is especially true of spouses.
In some ways I do wish I had never started this thread. But the handful of responses who showed that they got where I was coming from made it worthwhile. Thank-you.
For those others... sorry to have wasted your time. But much like watching cable TV, you didn't actually have to post here. You could have changed the channel and moved on. But I celebrate your right to any opinion you might hold whatsoever.
Peace my bruddas.
I guess I'm being too self-referential here, but I personally try to never directly tell someone else what to think, say or do. It's a bit of a personal credo for me. If asked, I may suggest by saying, "if I were in your shoes, this is what I'd think about..." I've also learned over the years that trying to fix someone's problems rather than merely listen to them can in some cases irritate the person speaking. This is especially true of spouses.
In some ways I do wish I had never started this thread. But the handful of responses who showed that they got where I was coming from made it worthwhile. Thank-you.
For those others... sorry to have wasted your time. But much like watching cable TV, you didn't actually have to post here. You could have changed the channel and moved on. But I celebrate your right to any opinion you might hold whatsoever.
Peace my bruddas.
If the band plays well live and the audience is happy, just sit back enjoy it. Sometimes the lack of musical knowledge can result in unusual chord patterns or melodies that don't sound entirely wrong, but rather sound intriguing and different. There have been cases of people noodling around on instruments only to come up with something catchy. That is not an endorsement of shoddy musical education, I firmly believe that a strong foundation is key to being the best musician you possibly can be. As far as practical application of this is concerned, I never heard of anyone who was enjoying themselves at a show mention the amount of theoretical knowledge possessed by individual band members. If the band is able to reproduce the same version of each song consistently, no one will be the wiser. The listeners will just think your arranger is inspired. The important thing is to please the audience. You don't need a boatload of theory to put on a great concert, especially if the material contains a total of three chords. If your performance is routinely marred by inexcusable amateurish mistakes, that's another story.
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I guess I'm not understanding, but you're saying that the guitarist is doing his own thing, maybe not so appropriate to the tune. Then you say you're going to do your own licks due to the complexity of the bass lines? I just gave it a listen, and that's a 10 minute-nail it pretty much note for note on the bass lines for me. You'd really hate the cover band I'm in! Nail the song and tell the guitarist to do the same. If he can't, it's not the band for you...
I agree 100%. Sorry but if someone claims to play guitar or bass and doesn't know what the function of a dominant chord is I AM OUT THE DOOR. I didn't spend the majority of my youth learning music theory in my bedroom as a kid just to play in a band with guys who can't or don't know how to solo over a ii/V/I progression. Basic stuff.
I feel your pain. It's like trying to play chess with someone who doesn't know how all the pieces move or play football with people who don't know who the safeties are supposed to cover or play baseball with people who don't know what a pickoff is.
I feel your pain. It's like trying to play chess with someone who doesn't know how all the pieces move or play football with people who don't know who the safeties are supposed to cover or play baseball with people who don't know what a pickoff is.
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I'll listen again. The bass line seems really buried in the mix, and just based on a quick listen, I couldn't discern any repetition in the bass line, almost like JC was walking over the changes the whole time.
I believe you. I just need to listen again.
I’ll take the gig-booker over the theory any day, but I understand what you mean about the music theory. I’m often bewildered at how someone can have been playing music for 40 years and not have a grasp on simple terms like turnaround, upbeat, stay on the one etc. I don’t care if someone can’t spell out an altered chord voicing, but it makes it hard when you’re trying to explain something like “that chord change is on the and of 1” (Rolling in the Deep).
I’ve come into a few bands where they are obviously playing a song a bit differently to how you would expect……I just ask flat out – “Are you playing this song wrong on purpose?” you usually get a pretty good idea of the dynamic of the band with that question.
I’ve come into a few bands where they are obviously playing a song a bit differently to how you would expect……I just ask flat out – “Are you playing this song wrong on purpose?” you usually get a pretty good idea of the dynamic of the band with that question.
In groups that played blues and rock, my experience is that players that have a deep understanding of theory are the exception, not not the norm. Anything more than "1-4-5" gets funny looks from most players. Mostly, these players learn the licks and perform them at the appropriate times. There are exceptions, of course, and it does seem to speed up the progress during rehearsal.
In jazz groups, knowledge of theory is the rule for the most part.
I've played with a few players at various times that had INCREDIBLE ears, and could play something the first time they heard it. They generally claimed to have weak knowledge of theory, but when pressed seemed to know more than they let on.
In jazz groups, knowledge of theory is the rule for the most part.
I've played with a few players at various times that had INCREDIBLE ears, and could play something the first time they heard it. They generally claimed to have weak knowledge of theory, but when pressed seemed to know more than they let on.
It's only a win-win until they feel that their knowledge base (or at least that of the band leader) has caught up to where you were when you first joined. After that, you become expendable.
@ToneMonkey: CONGRATS and stick with it IF you are having fun.
Looks like I'm the fly in the ointment here since I know some but am mostly "by ear" since I got to hear classical/keyboard practice from pre-birth to the age of 17 when I moved out to be on my own.(Mom and sister are classical piano players and pipe organ players at churches).
Been doing bass for 50+ years but had been out of bands from 1989 to 2006, get an email "Can you learn 100 songs in a month, we fired our bass player?". I passed the audition/gig. They've also been playing music for 40 to 50 years.
Guitarist: graduated GIT in 1989
Drummer: college grad percussion, well-known Texas music college
Keyboard/Guitarist: self-taught, toured with a #1 country act's road band for over a decade, returned to Texas to take care of his Dad.
I do always learn "their version" and the ORIGINAL artist's version(s) of all songs.
Looks like I'm the fly in the ointment here since I know some but am mostly "by ear" since I got to hear classical/keyboard practice from pre-birth to the age of 17 when I moved out to be on my own.(Mom and sister are classical piano players and pipe organ players at churches).
Been doing bass for 50+ years but had been out of bands from 1989 to 2006, get an email "Can you learn 100 songs in a month, we fired our bass player?". I passed the audition/gig. They've also been playing music for 40 to 50 years.
Guitarist: graduated GIT in 1989
Drummer: college grad percussion, well-known Texas music college
Keyboard/Guitarist: self-taught, toured with a #1 country act's road band for over a decade, returned to Texas to take care of his Dad.
I do always learn "their version" and the ORIGINAL artist's version(s) of all songs.
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Hi,
I've found it amazing how different musicians have learned their craft. I've worked with some who have incredible ears, perfect pitch, photographic recall, can pick out your vocal harmony part as being root, third, fifth, etc, and play the most tasteful solos you'll ever hear, but not read a single note of music.
I've also worked with musicians with a masters degree in performance who couldn't groove their way out of a Zen garden.
I think it's ideal if all the musicians in the band have enough theory so that it makes communication easier. If the keyboard player says "You need to play an augmented chord there" and the guitar player says, "Hunh?", then it can be inconvenient trying to get everyone to play the same thing. Or if you suggest to the drummer that there is an eighth note rest on the 'and of three' in that measure and all you get is drool, then it could take some time to get the phrasing correct.
But this is not an ideal world and sometimes we just have to make the best of things. We are all gifted differently. The important thing is to be kind, be patient, encourage each other, and try our best to make good music together by building each other up. Yes, it can be frustrating. Leave the situation if it's too much to bear. Better to leave than stay and take out your frustrations on your bandmates and make them think you're a know-it-all jerk. (I'm NOT calling anyone a 'know-it-all jerk', just an illustration.)
So write a chord chart, give a quick lesson in note values or key signatures. Perhaps just a little instruction at a time so that the others can learn to communicate music more effectively. The Nashville Number System is a terrific tool, sort of "music theory light", and can be used to understand and teach songs quicker.
Best of luck to you.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
I've found it amazing how different musicians have learned their craft. I've worked with some who have incredible ears, perfect pitch, photographic recall, can pick out your vocal harmony part as being root, third, fifth, etc, and play the most tasteful solos you'll ever hear, but not read a single note of music.
I've also worked with musicians with a masters degree in performance who couldn't groove their way out of a Zen garden.
I think it's ideal if all the musicians in the band have enough theory so that it makes communication easier. If the keyboard player says "You need to play an augmented chord there" and the guitar player says, "Hunh?", then it can be inconvenient trying to get everyone to play the same thing. Or if you suggest to the drummer that there is an eighth note rest on the 'and of three' in that measure and all you get is drool, then it could take some time to get the phrasing correct.
But this is not an ideal world and sometimes we just have to make the best of things. We are all gifted differently. The important thing is to be kind, be patient, encourage each other, and try our best to make good music together by building each other up. Yes, it can be frustrating. Leave the situation if it's too much to bear. Better to leave than stay and take out your frustrations on your bandmates and make them think you're a know-it-all jerk. (I'm NOT calling anyone a 'know-it-all jerk', just an illustration.)
So write a chord chart, give a quick lesson in note values or key signatures. Perhaps just a little instruction at a time so that the others can learn to communicate music more effectively. The Nashville Number System is a terrific tool, sort of "music theory light", and can be used to understand and teach songs quicker.
Best of luck to you.
Thank you for your indulgence,
BassCliff
yep - that's been my experience more often that not. Had one instance where a guy in the band (B.Mus, professional music teacher) was deemed by one of the guys to be the "best musician in the band". He had knowledge, he had chops, but consistently played over the top of everything and everyone. He was far from the "best musician" in the band. More to it than knowledge of theory.
I think being "intuitively musical" is more useful than knowledge of theory in a hobbyist band context, but some knowledge can help communicate between band members.
s0c9
Supporting Member
LOL - I used to play with a guitarist who has metal/rock upbringing... he uses power chords for all rhythm parts... and to this day doesn't know why he should play the C# MINOR [the song calls for] when he can sloppily play a C#5 . .I'd like to consider myself.. the second sentence.In my dreams
HE quite literally CANNOT HEAR the difference when both are played using a barre chord format on the 4th fret !!!!
You'll note the missing "2" finger in the C#5 - couldn't find barre chord example pics.
