Double Bass New Old Cab Day -- EA VL110

[Sam Sherry]

Guitar Center had a well-used Euphonic Audio VL-110 for a Peavey price. How could I say no?

After previously owning VL-208s and a Wizzy 10, my main box for the past couple of years has been a Wizzy 12. I was curious to scope the W12 side-by-each with the VL-110, each driven by my Underwood --> 1985 Walter Woods MI-225 setup.

Quantity-wise, the 8-Ohm VL-110 specs as 95 dB at 1W/1m. The 4-Ohm W12 specs as 103 dB. 8 decibels is something you notice right away. I rarely turn the master volume up to 12pm with the W12. Providing stage monitor for a 16-piece band last night, the VL-110 was run at about 1pm.

Sonically, I'm glad to have a VL box back in the house. The W12 is a great-sounding unit with a certain "forward" characteristic to the sound -- it's all on the table; I don't get the feeling that there's anything holding back. The VL-110 sounds smoother. Even driving the big band with C-extension excursions, the feeling is, "There's more. Don't you worry." It's also very nice to have the individual tweeter and midrange rheostats. (Tweeter is just about off; mid is rolled back to around 1pm. I'm not done tweaking the mid-range.)

I ran VL-208s for 10+ years. The VL-208 was the ultimate in high-fidelity sound for my ear. The VL-110 is not quite that smooth but I suspect that most or all of the difference is lost in a performance setting. On top of that the VL-208 is too heavy for one-tripping and even today it's pretty expensive.

At this point I'm keeping both the W12 and the VL-110. If I had to keep one, it would be hard to say right now. Choices are what makes the worm turn . . .

 

[bassgeek]

I've been digging the Vl-110 as well for about a year now. I run TWO of them with my Doubler. I could probably get away with one, but two of them gets me a little more power out of the Doubler.

It would be interesting to A/B with the Wizzy...I haven't had the chance to do that.

The VLs certainly are clear..maybe "too clear" sometimes. I'm using a dpa mic and a K&K into the Doubler.

Sounds like I should try (based on your experiences with the big band) using just a single VL110.

BTW, Two VL110s with the Doubler using electric bass in an outdoor setting is barely do-able in my experience.

 

[Ric Vice]

Guitar Center had a well-used Euphonic Audio VL-110 for a Peavey price. How could I say no?

There seem to be more of the VL 110's out there for some reason, probably because the VL 208's and VL 210's were very expensive and also very heavy.

Quantity-wise, the 8-Ohm VL-110 specs as 95 dB at 1W/1m. The 4-Ohm W12 specs as 103 dB. 8 decibels is something you notice right away. I rarely turn the master volume up to 12pm with the W12. Providing stage monitor for a 16-piece band last night, the VL-110 was run at about 1pm.

One of the trade offs with the entire VL series was they were power hungry, mostly due to the significant low end they produced.

Sonically, I'm glad to have a VL box back in the house. The W12 is a great-sounding unit with a certain "forward" characteristic to the sound -- it's all on the table; I don't get the feeling that there's anything holding back. The VL-110 sounds smoother. Even driving the big band with C-extension excursions, the feeling is, "There's more. Don't you worry." It's also very nice to have the individual tweeter and midrange rheostats. (Tweeter is just about off; mid is rolled back to around 1pm. I'm not done tweaking the mid-range.)

The beautiful thing about the VL's is the way they sound onstage standing right besides them. You, and the members of the band hear the entire frequency range of the instrument, it's a very balanced sound. Having two attenuators, gives you the ability to really fine tune and balance the midrange and treble.

I ran VL-208s for 10+ years. The VL-208 was the ultimate in high-fidelity sound for my ear. The VL-110 is not quite that smooth but I suspect that most or all of the difference is lost in a performance setting. On top of that the VL-208 is too heavy for one-tripping and even today it's pretty expensive.

I still have mine, but it's at the house, I rarely use it on gigs. Since it's got a full D'Appolito array the midrange coming off the VL 208 is more even and balanced than the VL 110.

At this point I'm keeping both the W12 and the VL-110. If I had to keep one, it would be hard to say right now. Choices are what makes the worm turn . . .

True

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Quantity-wise, the 8-Ohm VL-110 specs as 95 dB at 1W/1m. The 4-Ohm W12 specs as 103 dB. 8 decibels is something you notice right away. I rarely turn the master volume up to 12pm with the W12. Providing stage monitor for a 16-piece band last night, the VL-110 was run at about 1pm.

What Walter told me to do to get the most out of his older amps is to turn the master volume to 10 and use the input gain to set your overall volume level. It made a big difference for me.

To be perfectly clear, that tidbit applies ONLY to the MI-series amps. If an Electracoustic amp is run hard in this fashion, it will not be a happy amp. In extreme cases, the magic smoke may escape.

 

[Ric Vice]

What Walter told me to do to get the most out of his older amps is to turn the master volume to 10 and use the input gain to set your overall volume level. It made a big difference for me.

To be perfectly clear, that tidbit applies ONLY to the MI-series amps. If an Electracoustic amp is run hard in this fashion, it will not be a happy amp. In extreme cases, the magic smoke may escape.

+1 Walter's MI series, emulate tube amps that had individual channel volume controls, and a single master volume. You need run the master wide open for the best sound from those amps. The other difference was that the EQ on Channel 2 was "optimized" for Double Bass, which is slightly counterintuitive.

Ric

 

[drurb]

...8 decibels is something you notice right away.

Indeed. These cabs are typically spec'ed in the midrange-- typically around 1 kHz. An 8-dB decrease in sensitivity corresponds to the requirement for more than six times the power to achieve the same sound-pressure level. Of course, all is not equal. The VL 110 apparently has anextended low-end.

...One of the trade offs with the entire VL series was they were power hungry, mostly due to the significant low end they produced.

It's a demand of physics. The rule in design is that you can have only two of the following three:

1) Extended low end
2) Small size
3) Sensitvity (or efficiency)

What Walter told me to do to get the most out of his older amps is to turn the master volume to 10 and use the input gain to set your overall volume level. It made a big difference for me.

By turning the master up, you are allowing the input gain to access the full potential of the power amp. You're basically "fully opening the valve" into it. This is true for any amp with a master and input gain. There are, however, potential drawbacks to the practice. They are 1) non-optimal signal-to-noise ratio which, frankly, isn't likely to be a big issue once the music starts and 2) potential speaker damage. The second arises because, with the power-amp wide open, any errors in connecting/disconnecting cords, etc., depending upon where in the circuit they occur, can produce transients that will pass unimpeded to the power-amp section and right into the cab.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

If an Electracoustic amp is run hard in this fashion, it will not be a happy amp. In extreme cases, the magic smoke may escape.

Replacement smoke is available here: Invalid Link Removed

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

See, that's how you make money. Find a need, and fill it!

 

[Blue]

Guitar Center had a well-used Euphonic Audio VL-110 for a Peavey price. How could I say no?

After previously owning VL-208s and a Wizzy 10, my main box for the past couple of years has been a Wizzy 12. I was curious to scope the W12 side-by-each with the VL-110, each driven by my Underwood --> 1985 Walter Woods MI-225 setup.

Quantity-wise, the 8-Ohm VL-110 specs as 95 dB at 1W/1m. The 4-Ohm W12 specs as 103 dB. 8 decibels is something you notice right away. I rarely turn the master volume up to 12pm with the W12. Providing stage monitor for a 16-piece band last night, the VL-110 was run at about 1pm.

Sonically, I'm glad to have a VL box back in the house. The W12 is a great-sounding unit with a certain "forward" characteristic to the sound -- it's all on the table; I don't get the feeling that there's anything holding back. The VL-110 sounds smoother. Even driving the big band with C-extension excursions, the feeling is, "There's more. Don't you worry." It's also very nice to have the individual tweeter and midrange rheostats. (Tweeter is just about off; mid is rolled back to around 1pm. I'm not done tweaking the mid-range.)

I ran VL-208s for 10+ years. The VL-208 was the ultimate in high-fidelity sound for my ear. The VL-110 is not quite that smooth but I suspect that most or all of the difference is lost in a performance setting. On top of that the VL-208 is too heavy for one-tripping and even today it's pretty expensive.

At this point I'm keeping both the W12 and the VL-110. If I had to keep one, it would be hard to say right now. Choices are what makes the worm turn . . .

You’ll find the VL and Wizzy pair very well … least I did.

 

[Sam Sherry]

You’ll find the VL and Wizzy pair very well … least I did.

Well alright -- thanks for a visit with Sam in

In 2023:
> I've downsized from a Woods MI-225 to an MI-100 and have no regrets
> I'm still using EA VL-110 boxes, either one or two as the gig calls for
> I still own an EA Wizzy 12 but just about never use it

Generally, when it comes to DB gear my philosophy continues to be, "It ain't broke so don't fix it."
That stands in sharp contrast to the fairly steady stream of guitars which roll in and out of my house, but lately, even that appears to have reached a point of stability.

All the best in your quest!

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Well alright -- thanks for a visit with Sam in

In 2023:
> I've downsized from a Woods MI-225 to an MI-100 and have no regrets
> I'm still using EA VL-110 boxes, either one or two as the gig calls for
> I still own an EA Wizzy 12 but just about never use it

Generally, when it comes to DB gear my philosophy continues to be, "It ain't broke so don't fix it."
That stands in sharp contrast to the fairly steady stream of guitars which roll in and out of my house, but lately, even that appears to have reached a point of stability.

All the best in your quest!

Hey @Sam Sherry — I just picked up a used VL110 at “Rumble price” today and I must admit, it sounds just excellent. I’ve tried it with a WW Electracoustic Amber light, and with upright it just sounds huge compared to my usual Wizzy 10. Of course, the VL is much heavier than the Wizzy, but the sound is rich and HEAVY sounding. The VL110 sounds like a BASS cabinet for sure. Will use it on a gig this weekend…

 

[Ric Vice]

A few years ago I used to run a EA VL 110 with my Woods Electroacoustic Ultra blue light. It sounded really full and detailed. These days, I've gone with something lighter but the
EA cabs were great DB Cabs provided you had an amplifier with enough power to produce the low end they had. They are in a word "power hungry" especially the
VL 208 I owned. The difference you're likely hearing is the Transmission Line design of VL 110 which has a internal labyrinth ( like a Bose Wave speaker) to give it bass response.
On outdoor concerts, I used to combine the VL 208 and the VL 110. Great definition and bass but a lot of weight to cart around. Just my take of course.

 

[John Dong]

Guitar Center had a well-used Euphonic Audio VL-110 for a Peavey price. How could I say no?

After previously owning VL-208s and a Wizzy 10, my main box for the past couple of years has been a Wizzy 12. I was curious to scope the W12 side-by-each with the VL-110, each driven by my Underwood --> 1985 Walter Woods MI-225 setup.

Quantity-wise, the 8-Ohm VL-110 specs as 95 dB at 1W/1m. The 4-Ohm W12 specs as 103 dB. 8 decibels is something you notice right away. I rarely turn the master volume up to 12pm with the W12. Providing stage monitor for a 16-piece band last night, the VL-110 was run at about 1pm.

Sonically, I'm glad to have a VL box back in the house. The W12 is a great-sounding unit with a certain "forward" characteristic to the sound -- it's all on the table; I don't get the feeling that there's anything holding back. The VL-110 sounds smoother. Even driving the big band with C-extension excursions, the feeling is, "There's more. Don't you worry." It's also very nice to have the individual tweeter and midrange rheostats. (Tweeter is just about off; mid is rolled back to around 1pm. I'm not done tweaking the mid-range.)

I ran VL-208s for 10+ years. The VL-208 was the ultimate in high-fidelity sound for my ear. The VL-110 is not quite that smooth but I suspect that most or all of the difference is lost in a performance setting. On top of that the VL-208 is too heavy for one-tripping and even today it's pretty expensive.

At this point I'm keeping both the W12 and the VL-110. If I had to keep one, it would be hard to say right now. Choices are what makes the worm turn . . .

The VL-110 was made to have a "studio monitor" sound on stage which Don Lakin wanted. The Wizzy series was made to be have a more aggressive attack to better cut in a live venue. The VL-208 idea was promoted to us by Dave Freeman(Club Bass).

 

[Sam Sherry]

The VL-110 was made to have a "studio monitor" sound on stage which Don Lakin wanted. The Wizzy series was made to be have a more aggressive attack to better cut in a live venue. The VL-208 idea was promoted to us by Dave Freeman(Club Bass).

I am nobody special in the world of double bass but this moment presents itself and I will take it.

John Dong, thank you so much for all you and your team at Euphonic Audio did to help me deliver the sound of my basses to listeners and colleagues for all these years.

Here's hoping that you are enjoying retirement.
Please know that your work continues to empower the music every time I plug in my bass!

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I am nobody special in the world of double bass but this moment presents itself and I will take it.

John Dong, thank you so much for all you and your team at Euphonic Audio did to help me deliver the sound of my basses to listeners and colleagues for all these years.

Here's hoping that you are enjoying retirement.

^^^^^This x 1000.

 

[Ric Vice]

If EA had not taken the initiative building three way higher sound quality bass cabinets with transmission line porting we most likely wouldn’t have seen the improvements in size and power handling that benefit us today. Thanks John

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

If EA had not taken the initiative building three way higher sound quality bass cabinets with transmission line porting we most likely wouldn’t have seen the improvements in size and power handling that benefit is today. Thanks John

Agree. I played VL208's for years and they really raised the bar for what I hoped for from bass amps.