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New P bass finish

#21
ale29 said:
How is Fender allowed to make the 2013 line of AVRI guitars and basses still with nitro finishes then?
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It depends on the amount. The regulations are staggered depending on what your output is for any kind of "contaminant." That's how great painters such as Pat Wilkins can continue to use his exclusive poly formulation. His numbers compared to the numbers for a run-of-the-mill basic Precision are miniscule. Thus, he is allowed more leeway in what he can use. Same with Fender for small runs that don't exceed the limits for certain contaminants.
 
#22
ggoat!!! said:
It depends on the amount. The regulations are staggered depending on what your output is for any kind of "contaminant." That's how great painters such as Pat Wilkins can continue to use his exclusive poly formulation. His numbers compared to the numbers for a run-of-the-mill basic Precision are miniscule. Thus, he is allowed more leeway in what he can use. Same with Fender for small runs that don't exceed the limits for certain contaminants.
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So ggoat, do you have any indications or proof that the finishes on the new Fenders like the one in the OP are prone to more flaws now, due to the new regulations? Are they now finished using this water based paint? You seem to know a lot about the subject, I'm still curious if this is true.
 
#23
Guess I'll take the deafening silence as an answer.

RE: Japanese Fender bodies, they have always been polyester, and usually quite thick. I've never liked the feel of them myself, the only thing I don't like about these beautifully made instruments, actually. American Standards are Polyurethane, AFAIK.

I read something from Fender where they mentioned their finishes getting lighter and lighter, to the point where they tint them now on the AS series to look as rich as the older ones. Might this be a result of the switch to water-based polyurethanes?
 
#27
How dare those evil government people get in the way of my CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED right to have a bass without a microscopic paint imperfection?? I might have to venture out of my survivalist bunker, pick up my shoulder-mounted, anti-black helicopter missile launcher and liberate myself! :rollno:

But seriously... any paint or painting process that makes for cleaner air and water is MORE perfect, as far as I'm concerned.
 
#32
As with anything mass produced, flaws can happen from time to time. Its really nothing to worry about unless it bothers you.

My wife just ordered a LL Bean sweater that came with a puller. I told her it was just a product of California VOC laws and an oppresive government. I may even open a thread to publicly complain about quality control. It doesn't matter that 99.9% of the stuff we bought there is perfect, this one small incident has drawn the line.
 
#33
I bought a 2012 Fender American Precision bass. The finish has defects all over it, brought it back to the store I bought it from, the guy there told me this has been common.

I ended up returning it, buying a Fender American neck from the Stratosphere and having a custom Warmoth body built. Cost just as much putting parts together as an American P bass costs, plus I got to choose what wood and paint I wanted.

Warmoth does a great job. I was unhappy with my Fender finish.
 
#34
creis2 said:
I bought a 2012 Fender American Precision bass. The finish has defects all over it, brought it back to the store I bought it from, the guy there told me this has been common.

I ended up returning it, buying a Fender American neck from the Stratosphere and having a custom Warmoth body built. Cost just as much putting parts together as an American P bass costs, plus I got to choose what wood and paint I wanted.

Warmoth does a great job. I was unhappy with my Fender finish.
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I'd be upset too, if I paid full price but I only paid $750 used market price for new. So has this only been happening in the 2011/2012 since they switched to hippy paint?
 
#35
VOC control has been a hot topic since the late 80"s and ca has the toughest standards in the country. there is a national rule but states can enact their own laws than can be tougher than the national rule but never lower than. throughout the country there are also special zones with different standards. there are maps available if you wish to search for them.
Europe has been the leader in low voc finishes for years. so there is no excuse for us to say that there is a problem with the new finishes because what we are now using has been used over there for years.
fender probably has applied for, and received, an "exception" to the rules so they are allowed to use nitro on the RI and CS instruments. it is also possible that there is some sort of "grandfathered" rule in place because they have been using the nitro forever.
without a better picture i can't be 100% sure but, what that looks like is a "dirt inclusion". it may wet sand and buff but you risk burning through the clear before it disappears.

WOW... that was kind of cool! i got to use the thousands of hours of training i had in my former career to add something in a bass guitar forum!
 
#36
I had a spot underneath the clear coat of a new USA Charvel guitar a few years ago, it was white and it was pretty noticeable. I thought I had done it and I asked my guitar tech to see if he could buff it out, he told me it was under the clear coat and his best advice was "don't look there". I cracked up and just lived with it!
 
#37
wcoffey81 said:
VOC control has been a hot topic since the late 80"s and ca has the toughest standards in the country. there is a national rule but states can enact their own laws than can be tougher than the national rule but never lower than. throughout the country there are also special zones with different standards. there are maps available if you wish to search for them.
Europe has been the leader in low voc finishes for years. so there is no excuse for us to say that there is a problem with the new finishes because what we are now using has been used over there for years.
fender probably has applied for, and received, an "exception" to the rules so they are allowed to use nitro on the RI and CS instruments. it is also possible that there is some sort of "grandfathered" rule in place because they have been using the nitro forever.
without a better picture i can't be 100% sure but, what that looks like is a "dirt inclusion". it may wet sand and buff but you risk burning through the clear before it disappears.

WOW... that was kind of cool! i got to use the thousands of hours of training i had in my former career to add something in a bass guitar forum!
Click to expand...
Since it's never been a known issue with mass produced european basses (or even american ones for that matter, as far as i know) I think that it's clear it's just an example of not-so-great QC from Fender. And maybe that's not even related to the technique used for the painting.
 
#38
CA's air quality about the time that the regulations began to pile on was pretty harsh. Remember the '84 Olympics in LA? Some of the athletes couldn't compete because they couldn't breathe. It was almost as bad as Beijing is now (but not quite...)

Some makers who still use nitro finishes ship them to where the laws aren't as strict to get them finished, then ship them back to complete assembly. Dean does this even for their polyurethane as they can't spray any finishing whatsoever in their US plant. The local regulations and the humidity make it cost prohibitive, so they send it all out to Arizona. They're in Tampa, where wood finishing is about as predictable as coin flips.

That flaw looks like fly poop, yup. It's a QC issue. Someone at the plant is asleep at the wheel. Probably the plant manager's nephew. "Well - we can't put him on a machine, he won't stop eating Cheetos long enough to handle bare wood, so, well.. put him in the spray booth."
 

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