New pickups vs preamp for Peavey Grind

[TLPBassist]

Hello,

Long time lurker of the Talkbass forums. Hoping to reach out to fellow bassists for some opinions and info. I recently picked up a Peavey Grind 4, and I love the playability. But the pickups are pretty muddy (this was something I've found to be pretty common in reviews of the grind bass).

I can't decide between upgrading the pickups, or installing a preamp like the EMG BQC, or STC-2. I just want a clean, almost hifi smooth tone with versatility for slap and fingerstyle. I play in a Jazz/Funk/Blues/Rock band (I know, what a mouthfull) and for the time being my budget only allows for about 130-140$, so replacing one of two pickups, or putting in a preamp. I already forsee replacing just one pickup being a dumb idea, but I could be wrong. I'm not as familiar with bass pickups and electronics as I am guitars.

Does anyone have an opinion on some good choices for my situation?

 

[TLPBassist]

Bump?

 

[MarkA]

I have a Peavey Grind four-string. I think the ergonomics on that bass are great. I like mine acoustically and can get a pretty decent tone out of it, but would agree that the electronics are the weak point of the instrument, sonically.

I'm not sure of the pickup size on it and a quick search didn't turn up the dimensions -- you'll want to measure carefully before you buy pickups, for obvious reasons. Size aside, I think that you could get a used set of Bartolini or EMG soapbars for the price you've budgeted with a bit of looking. If you find a set of pickups for a Peavey Cirrus (again, check measurements) those could work very well (I've played a couple of Cirrus basses and found their slap tone smooth and hi-fi... people say "Smith-like" and I think that has some truth). Preamps: a Peavey Millenium Preamp with sweepable mids would work very well and likely come in under budget. The usual Bartolini and EMG suspects, along with a bunch of other budget options (Bassmods, etc.).

Peavey are reputedly good about parts and with customer service -- I'd give them a call about that pre and those Cirrus pickups. Tell them what you're trying to do.

I mention Bartolini and EMG pups because they're the most ubiquitous and people often mention them as exemplars of different types of tone:
EMG -- very clear, "sterile" to some (though I dig them in my main bass).
Bart -- very warm, burpy mids, slightly compressed, but can be clear, too.

There are a million other pickups/preamps you could try, though. Delano (pickups and pre) and Glockenklang (pre, more pricey) both reputed for clean, clear sound.

I'd get a pre before I tried only one pickup, but again, I think you could get two if you look used. Don't know whether I'd try a pre or pickups first, but if installing pickups and leaving the instrument passive, I'd invest a few more bucks in decent pots (I'd go 500 K to brighten it up, but you could go 250K) and caps for the bass and re-wire it. Not sure what's in there now, but I don't have a great deal of confidence in it.

In fact, if you want to do a cheap experiment with the bass, start there. A set of CTS or Bourns pots (again, I'd use 500K as I like it bright and open up top, but 250K is more common), a couple of capacitors, some wire, and a new jack should set you back about $25. I'd be surprised if that didn't clean up the tone of the bass. If you do install new pickups, then, they'll be on a better "foundation." If you install a pre, later, you'll still have the new jack and can save the pots for another project.

NOTE: EMGs are active pickups -- they'll require a 9V battery and 25K (not 250K) pots. However, new EMG pickups usually include the appropriate vol/tone pots.

 

[MarkA]

According to this thread you might do well with just installing a preamp. If you can find one cheap, that'd take care of the pots for you.

 

[TLPBassist]

Thanks for all the info man. I looked at EMG sets and couldn't seem to find any pairs in that price range. A lot of preamps were though. I also love the EMG sound, I have an 81/85 combo in my Agile AL-3100. I was thinking the EMG40J or 40JX combo, or maybe even a J in the bridge and a TWX in the neck. The pickup dimensions are around 4 x 1.5, so 5 string soapbars are my option. (Strange that they would have them that wide). I may go with a preamp first, based on the results the guy from that other thread said he heard. I like the look of the EMG BQC control, and might go with that. I can always throw pickups in later. I'm working on recording my band's album right now, and I just can't get the tone I want from the bass stock. I can get it close, but it's like the base line (punn very much intended) tone that I want, AFTER heavy EQ and processing. I'd rather it be good at the source and have less work to do so it's more natural. I guess it comes down to the choice of preamp now then.

I may just not be reading it right, but the BQC would come with two volume pots as well as the bass/treble and mid control, right? I'd hate to order it and find out I have to wait to install it until I get the volume pots.

 

[MarkA]

Re. the BQC, I'd check with Invalid Link Removed. I dig the pickups in my P/J, but don't have much experience with preamps.

Re. the pickups themselves, make sure you know what you're getting into as far as pickup size/routs. I think that EMGs are designed to be pretty forgiving of string spacing (Do they use blades?) but, again, that's something I'd double-check before installing a 5-string set in my four-string bass.

 

[will33]

A different preamp can help enhance the pickups or help "fix" whatever you think is lacking.

Though, if you're sure there is some thing inherent to these pickups you just plain don't like, it may be better to fix the problem at the source rather than downstream.

And yes, you can start with just replacing one pickup of a pair. For my style of play I'd start with the neck as that one makes the bottom and is always on to some degree, with the bridge being blended in for various amounts of attack, definition, etc.

If you're doing the Jaco thing or find yourself running the bridge pickup as say 60% or more of your tone, then you might want to start with that one.

If you say the bass is dark or muddy, you might even benefit from a bit brighter/thinner bridge pickup to add clarity to the neck one.

Point is, you don't have to view your pickups as a matched pair. If that were the case there would be no such thing as a P/J, or any number of other basses that use 2 different types of pickups to achieve tone and versatility.

 

[TLPBassist]

Re. the pickups themselves, make sure you know what you're getting into as far as pickup size/routs. I think that EMGs are designed to be pretty forgiving of string spacing (Do they use blades?) but, again, that's something I'd double-check before installing a 5-string set in my four-string bass.

I think most of them do, except th

A different preamp can help enhance the pickups or help "fix" whatever you think is lacking.

Though, if you're sure there is some thing inherent to these pickups you just plain don't like, it may be better to fix the problem at the source rather than downstream.

And yes, you can start with just replacing one pickup of a pair. For my style of play I'd start with the neck as that one makes the bottom and is always on to some degree, with the bridge being blended in for various amounts of attack, definition, etc.

If you're doing the Jaco thing or find yourself running the bridge pickup as say 60% or more of your tone, then you might want to start with that one.

If you say the bass is dark or muddy, you might even benefit from a bit brighter/thinner bridge pickup to add clarity to the neck one.

Point is, you don't have to view your pickups as a matched pair. If that were the case there would be no such thing as a P/J, or any number of other basses that use 2 different types of pickups to achieve tone and versatility.

Good points man. I had a P-Bass loaned to me before I got the grind, and while I liked the feel of it, the tone was also not what I was looking for. The slaps and pops felt more like thumps and brighter thumps.

The best way to describe the sound I like would be my E string having a big bottom to it, but with a bit of metallic snap as well when I slap it. This comes very close (wouldn't you know it, EMG!):


It looks like his pickup would be in the middle of where my grind pickups sit though, and I'm sure that has something to do with the tone.

This is an example of a tone I don't care for as much, more "Thuddy" in the low end.



I'm probably nitpicking, and over analyzing, but that's why I thought I'd come get opinions from bassists from all over so I don't rip my hair out

 

[TLPBassist]

UPDATE:

I played a bass in my local guitar center today that had EMG 35j/35p pickups in it, and wow. Exactly the tone I was looking for. I appreciate the input guys, great info and a lot of it will still pertain after I get the pickups (preamp next!). The P/J set up sounds great from the EMGs, has that metallic clank to it but a nice fat and smooth bottom too.

 

[phillybass101]

Ok just my opinion here. Install some Aggie DCB4's and a Bart NTMB Pre and your bass will be a different animal and you'll love the slap tone.

 

[shal1234]

UPDATE:

I played a bass in my local guitar center today that had EMG 35j/35p pickups in it, and wow. Exactly the tone I was looking for. I appreciate the input guys, great info and a lot of it will still pertain after I get the pickups (preamp next!). The P/J set up sounds great from the EMGs, has that metallic clank to it but a nice fat and smooth bottom too.

Did you swap the pickups? I'm in the same boat. Love the bass but the pickups are terrible. I was thinking about pulling the pickups from a spare peavey foundation body that I have but the routing is different. I could get the old dremel out but I'd rather not do anything I can't reverse in case I don't like the results.

 

[GlassToMouth]

Just curious how you made out. I have the BQC installed in my Grind 4 along with the 40DC's that are a perfect fit. I'm very pleased with the results and think you will be too.

 

[jcdlc72]

Just curious how you made out. I have the BQC installed in my Grind 4 along with the 40DC's that are a perfect fit. I'm very pleased with the results and think you will be too.

Didn't checked this post until now, but still..
Well, I also own a Grind 4 and was very dissappointed with the electronics (although I definitely LOVE the build, the shape and ergonomics, and the acoustic tone is real nice!). I decided (several years ago, mind you...) to put a preamp on it and see what happens, and the one I got (some no-brand-ish aftermarket preamp suitable for a 4-knobs V-B-T-B configuration) seemed to work somewhat okay at first, but for some reason was a battery guzzler (it even died on me after a 1-hour gig... at least served as a stopwatch!) and so I decided to swap the entire electronics package. I decided for a couple of EMG's 40-J pickups. The EMG 40 fits perfectly on height, but the cavity's width is bigger, and so I had to fill it with something (I found some hard black foam lying around, and I cut small pieces of it to fit the spaces on the side, hasn't fallen or deteriorated in about 10 years now...). The sound was NOT exactly as I expected (I was going for some sort of bright Jazz Bass sound), specially finding it lacks some punch on the neck pickup (Been considering swapping the 40J for a 40P or even a DC) and probably some scoop for slap. Since it is not my main axe, I have been lazy on making any further changes to it (the best results I got so far without altering electronics were putting stainless steel strings), but I've been wondering whether changing the neck pickup OR installing the EMG preamp would get me closer to the sound I'm after... My humble two cents. Any thoughts?

 

[GlassToMouth]

Didn't checked this post until now, but still..
Well, I also own a Grind 4 and was very dissappointed with the electronics (although I definitely LOVE the build, the shape and ergonomics, and the acoustic tone is real nice!). I decided (several years ago, mind you...) to put a preamp on it and see what happens, and the one I got (some no-brand-ish aftermarket preamp suitable for a 4-knobs V-B-T-B configuration) seemed to work somewhat okay at first, but for some reason was a battery guzzler (it even died on me after a 1-hour gig... at least served as a stopwatch!) and so I decided to swap the entire electronics package. I decided for a couple of EMG's 40-J pickups. The EMG 40 fits perfectly on height, but the cavity's width is bigger, and so I had to fill it with something (I found some hard black foam lying around, and I cut small pieces of it to fit the spaces on the side, hasn't fallen or deteriorated in about 10 years now...). The sound was NOT exactly as I expected (I was going for some sort of bright Jazz Bass sound), specially finding it lacks some punch on the neck pickup (Been considering swapping the 40J for a 40P or even a DC) and probably some scoop for slap. Since it is not my main axe, I have been lazy on making any further changes to it (the best results I got so far without altering electronics were putting stainless steel strings), but I've been wondering whether changing the neck pickup OR installing the EMG preamp would get me closer to the sound I'm after... My humble two cents. Any thoughts?

I've since moved on from my Peavey Grind. I sold it at a steal for a friend in need. But, I still have 3 basses fully loaded with EMG pickups and preamp. I did enjoy the Grind, but it ended up seeing the least amount of playing time. My main for years was a Hamer Cruise with 40J/40DC. A Brubaker Brute with 40JX set is my answer to active Jazz on steroids which sees some action. But my main is now a Kiesel Vanquish multiscale 4 string with EMG TWX pickups. This one is my holy grail. The ability to switch between single and dual coil tones on each pickup is amazing. I've loved every EMG install I've done, but the dual TWX setup takes the cake. I have a decent demo of these pickups on YouTube. Good fidelity, every combination demonstrated.

 

[jcdlc72]

...my main is now a Kiesel Vanquish multiscale 4 string with EMG TWX pickups....

Wow!! I didn't knew about the TWX pickups, and just discovered them after reading your reply! Those seem to be amazing! Gotta find more info about them, seems like a swap may be in order. Thanks for the info!!!

 

[kodiakblair]

I swapped the pickups in my Peavey Zephyr/C-5 for Warman Jazzbars. It had the same size pickups as my Grind.

Invalid Link Removed

The Warman has a bigger footprint so I popped the covers off and installed them in rosewood boxes from ebay.

They are 4 wire so you can have series/parallel or coil tap.


Later added a Tone Monster preamp and gold bling.

SBK Series Preamps

 

[jcdlc72]

I swapped the pickups in my Peavey Zephyr/C-5 for Warman Jazzbars. It had the same size pickups as my Grind....
Later added a Tone Monster preamp and gold bling.
SBK Series Preamps

Sounds interesting, although a little bit of hard work to be done. Can you post some sound clips? Also, the Tone Monster preamp seems to be interesting, but is kinda discouraging the fact that they don't include / provide knobs, and the preamp I'd like to try on my Grind has two concentric pots, which would make harder to find the proper knobs for them... Also, I tried to visit theyr eBay store page and it seems there is nothing in there... How did you managed to buy from them?

 

[kodiakblair]

Sounds interesting, although a little bit of hard work to be done.

Hard work involved popping a plastic case and peeling the potting. Time taken 2 minutes.

This is stock Grind pickups with the Tone Monster,the Zephyr file is the Warman Tone Monster. Recorded straight to Audacity.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]


2 concentric pots. Outer ring is 8mm,tip is 6mm. The details are given on the Tone Monster page but that is the standard size for non-USA dual concentric pots . The reason Guitar Fuel,and many others, don't sell knobs is it's nigh impossible to carry the colours/styles for personal tastes.

I last spoke with Ty maybe 18 months back,I was asking for wider specs on the preamp, he said his business was more cigarette box amps/amp kits. I have an email address for him which I'll PM you.