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New School vs. Old School?

Z

Zappstorius

Oct 20, 2006
835
4
San Francisco Bay Area
www.myspace.com
#1
I was pondering the legality of tabs the other day. It seems to me that (for the most part) the people who have an issue with free tab sites and such are older musicians.

Traditionally, books have been published and sold (for a kickback to the artists themselves I assume) in standard notation, with a small "tab" underneath the line.

Is this really an issue between newer ways of doing things (i.e. free music downloads-Napster stuff-free tabs) vs. older, traditional ways (i.e. music stores-books-etc, or is it just me?

What are you views on it?
 
#2
I figure that unless the artists release the music in books, then fans should be allowed to do their own tabs. There are many artists, mostly the most popular, who do release tablature and that's sweet. My problem is with those artists who don't release tab books or standard notation for their music and then complain about it. If you want money, then just publish it bro! Cause I'd buy the bloody book (as long as it's not too expensive).

At least that's what I think.
 
#3
I think you might as well buy the book. Since the tabs are usually so bad that it makes the majority of them absolutely useless to anyone with ears. Those that are correct can quite quickly be worked out by those with just a bit of experience. For those without the experience buy the book.

I don't know how those guys can press lawsuits the tabs are so far off the mark most of them are just a different song.


At the end of the day it all boils down to money. Thats what the industry wants thats what the lawyers want thats what those downloading the tabs want to hold on to. Its what drives this world whether we want to believe that or not. To be honest Im sure there are guys out there that would stop you in your tracks from playing a cover song in your own house on your own unless you gave royalties.
 
#4
I agree, and I guess that's why I'm on the side of sites. I have bought books before, and would probably do it again. I'm not against people getting paid for what they do, I'm against the industry exploiting these artists. Why buy a CD for $16 when the band is getting 45 cents? I might as well download it from a site right? And save the money to support the band where they actually might see some of the money...at a show and on merch. Same goes with this stuff.

Disclaimer to the U.S. Govt: I do not actually download music illegally, for further contact please go through my attorney Mr. Johnnie Cochran.
 
#6
Brianrost is hilarious. I actually noticed that among people that I knew with huge CD collections were those that downloaded illegally. I actually buy my CD's and only have 4
:(. As for tabs... I don't really use them as much as a I used to but I do believe that they are a valuable tool for those beginners that are looking for an easy place to start. I just think it's unfair to them.
 
#7
This "newer way" of doing things is not new, and neither is the the bias against it.

It is called "stealing", and it has been around for a long time, as has the bias against it.

The people who are all for the free exchange of everything are the ones who don't lose anything from that theft.

Having said that, I think there is some legitimacy to the argument that tab sites used for educational purposes are not the same thing - unless the publisher also sells the tablature. Then it is not much different than copying the recording and giving it away for free, except that the financial impact of tab sites compared to file sharing is probably many orders of magnitude lower.

Yea, we all want stuff for free. The industry that makes music does it for $ though - they are not interested in you having it for free.
 
#8
I have bought lotsa bass books.... Unfortunately there are not enough out there (at least of the artists I like)... I have a best of Police, Rush, the Bass White pages (I wish they would do a couple more volumes, like the geetard white pages has 4 or 5 books), several of the "bass bibles" (R&B, classic rock, hard rock, etc), I also have the Beatles Complete Scores (an awesome tome, has all the parts for all the instruments, with music and tabs for bass, and all guitars).

I actually prefer the written music (I am a tuba player and mucis teacher, so the bass clef is my world). Tabs mystify me, especially if I am tryin gto pick up a song I do not know or have a good bass-heavy recording of. I do like having the tabs along with the music, cause sometimes it gives a noob like me better ideas for fingerings, etc.

I was stumped when I had a guitar ist and bassist join my HS band that did not read music, only tabs. Fortunately I found that Finale (which I live and die by... I could fill a whole other thread!) will tab parts! I always print the music & tab together like the books do, and it really helped some of them learn to read the music better, especially the bass player.
 
#9
I'm all in favour of anything that conveys accurate musical information...

unfortunately, the harsh reality of internet bass tabs is that the vast majority of them are unusably inaccurate...

when you first get on the internet, you think "whooooah, all those bass players out there with all that knowledge... there must be accurate tabs & transcriptions of virtually ANYTHING you could think of...."

and then you discover that 99% of the material you find out there has been transcribed by a musically illiterate baboon
 
#10
cowsgomoo said:
I'm all in favour of anything that conveys accurate musical information...

unfortunately, the harsh reality of internet bass tabs is that the vast majority of them are unusably inaccurate...

when you first get on the internet, you think "whooooah, all those bass players out there with all that knowledge... there must be accurate tabs & transcriptions of virtually ANYTHING you could think of...."

and then you discover that 99% of the material you find out there has been transcribed by a musically illiterate baboon
Click to expand...


Yeah this is the thing - but also when I was growing up and learning bass there were no Tabs - not anywhere!

People also forget that the internet is a relatively recent thing and that 10 years ago it didn't exist - and when it first started getting popular it was totally dominated by net nerd kids who had never been out of their bedrooms, let alone played a gig! :p

So - it was kind of like "the blind leading the blind"....

Anybody who was an experienced musician 10 years ago was not sitting in their bedroom, posting Tabs on the net - they were out there doing it!

And while a few have embraced the net for various reasons - it's mostly still the same! The musicians who know what they're doing are out there doing it!
 
#11
Zappstorius said:
I agree, and I guess that's why I'm on the side of sites. I have bought books before, and would probably do it again. I'm not against people getting paid for what they do, I'm against the industry exploiting these artists. Why buy a CD for $16 when the band is getting 45 cents? I might as well download it from a site right? And save the money to support the band where they actually might see some of the money...at a show and on merch. Same goes with this stuff.

Disclaimer to the U.S. Govt: I do not actually download music illegally, for further contact please go through my attorney Mr. Johnnie Cochran.
Click to expand...

100 percent man. nothing wrong with tabs.

I dont think its fair for the music industry to chage such high prices for a cd. If I wanted just my top ten favorite artits cd's thatd be over 200-300 bucks! Thats just a top ten - imagine how much an entire music collection would cost to build from just buying cds. Insane. I think 10 bucks for a cd is a good price. 1 dollar for packaging and production, 4 for the artist and 5 for the company (because the company always has to have the biggest share :scowl: )

And the artists don't get much of it anyway - I cry for the music industry. If I ever get in a band that wants to make a cd, we are producing it ourselves. D*** record labels
 
#12
I went 14 years without playing bass. I got a call from an old bandmate a year and a half ago asking me to join a new band. I had to learn 45 songs fast. Tabs on the internet saved me.

I have learned far more from playing now than I did fourteen years ago. Tabs sites should be seen as friendly way of educating by sharing basslines. The fact that multi-millionaire companies get offended by them is absurd. They are still going to make their millions of dollars and I will never be able to able to support my family by playing cover songs in a small town band.
 
#14
Cristo said:
This "newer way" of doing things is not new, and neither is the the bias against it.

It is called "stealing", and it has been around for a long time, as has the bias against it.

The people who are all for the free exchange of everything are the ones who don't lose anything from that theft.

Having said that, I think there is some legitimacy to the argument that tab sites used for educational purposes are not the same thing - unless the publisher also sells the tablature. Then it is not much different than copying the recording and giving it away for free, except that the financial impact of tab sites compared to file sharing is probably many orders of magnitude lower.

Yea, we all want stuff for free. The industry that makes music does it for $ though - they are not interested in you having it for free.
Click to expand...




Downloading music is not "stealing", it is "copyright infringment". It's an important legal distinction especially because copying someone else's ideas for your own use is a much newer crime than simple theft (in which you actually take something away from someone and they no longer have it for themselves).

Regardless of whether or not it's illegal or unethical, copying information for one's own use from off the internet is going to continue to be widespread (and 100% unstoppable) simply because it can be done anonymously from your own home for virtually no cost in either money or effort.
 
#15
Bruce Lindfield said:
Yeah this is the thing - but also when I was growing up and learning bass there were no Tabs - not anywhere!

People also forget that the internet is a relatively recent thing and that 10 years ago it didn't exist - and when it first started getting popular it was totally dominated by net nerd kids who had never been out of their bedrooms, let alone played a gig! :p

So - it was kind of like "the blind leading the blind"....

Anybody who was an experienced musician 10 years ago was not sitting in their bedroom, posting Tabs on the net - they were out there doing it!

And while a few have embraced the net for various reasons - it's mostly still the same! The musicians who know what they're doing are out there doing it!
Click to expand...




The first thing I had to do when I joined a small jazz combo over 20 years ago was buy a copy of "The Real Book"; illegally copied sheet music in chart form of hundreds of jazz standards for working musicians (and most musicians used them). "Copyright infringement" has been around a whole lot longer than the internet.
 
#16
Legal?

Legal is just what some government says is ok to do.

Government is no different that gangs ( organized crime ).

They both rule through coercion. It's that simple.

It's all the same - one group's desire to control another group.

Why is it "legal" to smoke one plant and not another?

Why is it "legal" to eat one mushroom and not another?

Why is it "legal" for the government to take money (taxes) from you? It's just another name for "protection money". So long as you are taxed, you are a slave- THINK ABOUT IT!

So I write a song. I play the song. Someone learns/copies the song. Someone tabs the song. Someone learns the song from the tab.

How am I harmed and to what extent?
 
#17
hbarcat said:
Downloading music is not "stealing", it is "copyright infringment". It's an important legal distinction especially because copying someone else's ideas for your own use is a much newer crime than simple theft (in which you actually take something away from someone and they no longer have it for themselves).

.
Click to expand...

downloading ilegally is stealing, whether you like it or not. copyrights and intellectual property rights are there to protect your ideas, not actual stuff you can run a way with. legally speaking it's the same, you took something which is not yours to take. end of story.
 
#19
This is interesting. I'm pretty new to the guitar/bass world, and of course I'd heard about tabs from my friends that play, but I had no idea that they were illegal. Call me naive lol. I'm going to have to side with xiketero who said it was just another form of reverse engineering. If someone manages to figure out how to tab it, well there shouldn't be anything stopping them from sharing it. That's just my 2 cents.
 

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