New strings 'clack' on contact with fret?

[LeighOnSea]

Newby question incoming - but very thick skin
I have only been 'playing' for about 14 months (my first instrument).
I play fingers and am working through Clash and the like songs
I dont slap.

With much the help from the Sire thread and quite some experimenting, I have found the strings I like on my Jazz V3 (D'Addario Chromes), Precision P5R (D'Addario Halfrounds / Rotosound Jazz 77's - not quite decided yet) and PJ P7 (GHS Pressurewounds)

All 3 came with D'Addario XL nickel Roundwounds, the V3 (2023) and P7 (2020) I bought new, the P5R (2024) second hand, but 'as new'.

I have now noticed that there is much more noise when the strings are pressed against the fret

This is not fret buzz - its actually a 'clack' as I fret, and I think its from the correct fret, not others closer to the body
(by the way, is that 'lower' as in situated lower down the bass or 'higher' as in gives a higher frequency?)

It also isnt about the 'sound' of the strings as in 'brightness'

I guess it could be me fretting too hard / fast - but even when I am going over the top trying to fret REALLY lightly the 'clack' is still louder than I remember.
Also, the 'clack' got worse in all cases when I changed the strings (I am pretty sure).

It also seems to be worst on the E string

My daughter tried my P7 and complained about it. She has a late 90's (IIRC) Squire Standard Series Special PJ bass with very very old roundwound strings on it (bass bought second hand, she didnt want to change strings).
I am nearly 60 and still crap - she picks things up really quick, orderS of magnitude quicker.
I hate young people.

Is fret-string contact noise worse for flats?
&/or is it worse for newer strings?

I set up the relief, and also '2.4 to 2 mm at 17th fret" action with my feeler gauges (I'm a mechanic's son and an Engineer so like that kind of stuff)
I even checked the nut action or whatever its called

Or what else is going on?

Mostly this is out of intrigue, I am a very curious cat.

Thanks, and go gently on me,

Or dont

 

[michael_t]

With much the help from the Sire thread and quite some experimenting, I have found the strings I like on my Jazz V3 (D'Addario Chromes), Precision P5R (D'Addario Halfrounds / Rotosound Jazz 77's - not quite decided yet) and PJ P7 (GHS Pressurewounds)

All 3 came with D'Addario XL nickel Roundwounds, the V3 (2023) and P7 (2020) I bought new, the P5R (2024) second hand, but 'as new'.

I have now noticed that there is much more noise when the strings are pressed against the fret...

This "clack" you're talking about... Are you referring to all three, or a specific one of the three?

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Explore your technique. Sounds like a hammer on type side effect. You don't need to fret the note with a lot of force or speed.
Your left hand is clamping the string harder and faster, AHEAD of the note timing.
Regardless of string type construction or age the result will be the same.

 

[LeighOnSea]

This "clack" you're talking about... Are you referring to all three, or a specific one of the three?

Thanks @michael_t

I just quickly compared the three, and

The V3 (Chromes) has most clack

Then the P5R (Rotosound Jazz 77s)

then the P7 (GHS Pressurewounds)

That's in order of (surface) smoothness of the strings (and especially the E string, since the E string of the Rotosounds is not totally smooth) ....

Also, the P7 got less 'clack' when I changed it from Rotosound Jazz 77s to GHS pressurewounds - a decrease in string smoothness

Have you stimulated me into (partially?) answering my own question?

PS I kept to very nearly the same gauges that the original XL's had throughout

 

[LeighOnSea]

Explore your technique. Sounds like a hammer on type side effect. You don't need to fret the note with a lot of force or speed.
Your left hand is clamping the string harder and faster, AHEAD of the note timing.
Regardless of string type construction or age the result will be the same.

Ah, so I should be fretting only at the note timing as I finger, simultaneously?
Maybe the flats are less 'tolerant' of this bad technique?
Yes, clack sounds like what I assume Hammer On means

 

[red_rhino]

What are you playing through? Does the cab have a tweeter? Sometimes that “clank” is a result of treble EQ being cranked too much, which makes the artifact more noticeable.

That said, IME the pressurewounds and D’Addario nickel XLs don’t clank as much as some other strings. I don’t know about flats vs rounds; I play rounds almost exclusively.

 

[UntitledProject]

If you didn't also do a setup on each instrument following string changes you might have slightly different action (string height), from increased it decreased relief, resulting in needing more or less force to fret a note than you are used to.

 

[michael_t]

The V3 (Chromes) has most clack

Then the P5R (Rotosound Jazz 77s)

then the P7 (GHS Pressurewounds)

That's in order of (surface) smoothness of the strings (and especially the E string, since the E string of the Rotosounds is not totally smooth) ....

Also, the P7 got less 'clack' when I changed it from Rotosound Jazz 77s to GHS pressurewounds - a decrease in string smoothness...

Chromes = stainless steel.
Roto 77 = nickel-copper alloy (Monel).
Pressurewound = nickel-iron alloy (Alloy 52).

As @/\/\3phist0 suggested above, this could be more of a technique issue than a string issue. The reason why you're getting the most clack with the Chromes is stainless steel tends to accentuate extraneous noise resulting from poor technique more than nickel-based alloys. Maybe you should set up those strings with a lower action and try fretting with a lighter force.

 

[tb-player]

Sounds like a plucking hand technique issue to me. If you strike downward against the string, you could creating noice against the pickup magnet or the last fret of the fingerboard. By adjusting your hand so that you're plucking up through the string, you may avoid the extra noise. Also, you may need to turn your volume up and decrease the force with which you attack the string.

 

[LeighOnSea]

What are you playing through? Does the cab have a tweeter? Sometimes that "clank" is a result of treble EQ being cranked too much, which makes the artifact more noticeable.

That said, IME the pressurewounds and D'Addario nickel XLs don't clank as much as some other strings. I don't know about flats vs rounds; I play rounds almost exclusively.

My own cab (https://www.talkbass.com/threads/celestion-pulse-xl-10-40-cab.1657920/page-5#post-28641842) and a Markbass Marcus Miller CMD 101 Micro 60 combo
I havent changed the treble setting on string changes
I also kept all 3 combo EQ's level, and the Bass tone knobs fully open (no high cut-off) and the active basses (V3 & P7) on passive for a fair comparison

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Ah, so I should be fretting only at the note timing as I finger, simultaneously?
Maybe the flats are less 'tolerant' of this bad technique?
Yes, clack sounds like what I assume Hammer On means

Hammer on, means an unmuted string fretted with speed and force WITHOUT being plucked.
This will occur BEFORE you pluck the note.
IF the clunk/clank/ clack is occurring AS you are plucking the note:
You may be:
Striking downward on the string
Plucking the string with too much force
Too low action

All of the above will bounce the string off of the fretboard: think of “slap” bass tones: the clank in the initial note attack.

 

[LeighOnSea]

If you didn't also do a setup on each instrument following string changes you might have slightly different action (string height), from increased it decreased relief, resulting in needing more or less force to fret a note than you are used to.

Sounds like a plucking hand technique issue to me. If you strike downward against the string, you could creating noice against the pickup magnet or the last fret of the fingerboard. By adjusting your hand so that you're plucking up through the string, you may avoid the extra noise. Also, you may need to turn your volume up and decrease the force with which you attack the string.

I did re-setup after string changes, and I think I dont have plucking hand noises since I did try to lower the action ( I wondered if this was my problem) and then had to raise it to stop these lower fret noises

Chromes = stainless steel.
Roto 77 = nickel-copper alloy (Monel).
Pressurewound = nickel-iron alloy (Alloy 52).

As @/\/\3phist0 suggested above, this could be more of a technique issue than a string issue. The reason why you're getting the most clack with the Chromes is stainless steel tends to accentuate extraneous noise resulting from poor technique more than nickel-based alloys. Maybe you should set up those strings with a lower action and try fretting with a lighter force.

I think that is it - my bad (let me positively say 'improving' ) technique and some strings / basses are more forgiving to that than others

Rockwell B Hardness:
Chromes SS 88
Roto 77 Monel 60
Pressurewounds Alloy 52 - 73

But for (Hertzian) contact, mixed in with material hardness is the shape being pushed onto the fret (flat, or round or flattened oval)

Sorry, I've done a lot of research into Impact on Composites Materials so I find this stuff interesting, GEEK!


I am also getting better, and faster (tho i try not to be speed orientated) and perhaps this means I am getting ahead of myself fretting wise
And I think as larger problems like being able to do different things with different hands, using more fingers, etc etc get better, other ones get heard above the noise?

This is great fun - I love learning

 

[LeighOnSea]

Hammer on, means an unmuted string fretted with speed and force WITHOUT being plucked.
This will occur BEFORE you pluck the note.
IF the clunk/clank/ clack is occurring AS you are plucking the note:
You may be:
Striking downward on the string
Plucking the string with too much force
Too low action

All of the above will bounce the string off of the fretboard: think of "slap" bass tones: the clank in the initial note attack.

Yes, I think I am the culprit - but I do thing the strings have made my mistakes more audible
I will now go and practice
which i do every day
Because I cant wait to do it, not as a chore

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Hammer on, means an unmuted string fretted with speed and force WITHOUT being plucked.
This will occur BEFORE you pluck the note.
IF the clunk/clank/ clack is occurring AS you are plucking the note:
You may be:
Striking downward on the string
Plucking the string with too much force
Too low action

All of the above will bounce the string off of the fretboard: think of "slap" bass tones: the clank in the initial note attack.

Some helpful targeted discussion here:

Best Way To Keep Strings from Clacking on the Fretboard When Playing?

It sounds like you might be describing what is usually called “fret buzz”… like a quick loudish rattle when either not pressing down close enough to the fret / not pressing down hard enough / or lifting your finger off the fret too slowly (there are other factors but these seem to be common)...

forum.bassbuzz.com

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Newby question incoming - but very thick skin
I have only been 'playing' for about 14 months (my first instrument).
I play fingers and am working through Clash and the like songs
I dont slap.

With much the help from the Sire thread and quite some experimenting, I have found the strings I like on my Jazz V3 (D'Addario Chromes), Precision P5R (D'Addario Halfrounds / Rotosound Jazz 77's - not quite decided yet) and PJ P7 (GHS Pressurewounds)

All 3 came with D'Addario XL nickel Roundwounds, the V3 (2023) and P7 (2020) I bought new, the P5R (2024) second hand, but 'as new'.

I have now noticed that there is much more noise when the strings are pressed against the fret

This is not fret buzz - its actually a 'clack' as I fret, and I think its from the correct fret, not others closer to the body
(by the way, is that 'lower' as in situated lower down the bass or 'higher' as in gives a higher frequency?)

It also isnt about the 'sound' of the strings as in 'brightness'

I guess it could be me fretting too hard / fast - but even when I am going over the top trying to fret REALLY lightly the 'clack' is still louder than I remember.
Also, the 'clack' got worse in all cases when I changed the strings (I am pretty sure).

It also seems to be worst on the E string

My daughter tried my P7 and complained about it. She has a late 90's (IIRC) Squire Standard Series Special PJ bass with very very old roundwound strings on it (bass bought second hand, she didnt want to change strings).
I am nearly 60 and still crap - she picks things up really quick, orderS of magnitude quicker.
I hate young people.

Is fret-string contact noise worse for flats?
&/or is it worse for newer strings?

I set up the relief, and also '2.4 to 2 mm at 17th fret" action with my feeler gauges (I'm a mechanic's son and an Engineer so like that kind of stuff)
I even checked the nut action or whatever its called

Or what else is going on?

Mostly this is out of intrigue, I am a very curious cat.

Thanks, and go gently on me,

Or dont

Sure, fretting really hard and clamping down on frets will certainly (and dramatically) increase the sound you are asking about. Adjusting the bass so it is very easy to play will go a long way to helping the bass being easier to play, and requiring less hard fretting. As you become more experienced, and get the bass dialed in, you will likely learn EXACTLY how much pressure to apply, and EXACTLY how physical to get with it, and a skill that will accompany that is technique for both hands as a player, learning to minimize such sounds, beyond fretting mechanics.

 

[PennyroyalWe]

Muting the stings when you’re not wanting them to vibrate/sound will fix this. With time, you’ll get there. 14 months is still vet new to playing.

 

[mambo4]

(by the way, is that 'lower' as in situated lower down the bass or 'higher' as in gives a higher frequency?)

I work in computer graphics by day and I can confidently say that everyday English is horrible for accurately describing positions in space.
Terms like high, low, parallel, across, etc frequently get used with out any specified point of reference, making it unclear.

When discussing Bass, I always use "higher" and "lower" to refer to pitch and never to 3D positioning.
The G string is higher than the E string
The 5th fret is lower than the 12 fret
moving toward the bridge is going up the neck
and so on

 

[BassicJazzy]

Newby question incoming - but very thick skin
I have only been 'playing' for about 14 months (my first instrument).
I play fingers and am working through Clash and the like songs
I dont slap.

With much the help from the Sire thread and quite some experimenting, I have found the strings I like on my Jazz V3 (D'Addario Chromes), Precision P5R (D'Addario Halfrounds / Rotosound Jazz 77's - not quite decided yet) and PJ P7 (GHS Pressurewounds)

All 3 came with D'Addario XL nickel Roundwounds, the V3 (2023) and P7 (2020) I bought new, the P5R (2024) second hand, but 'as new'.

I have now noticed that there is much more noise when the strings are pressed against the fret

This is not fret buzz - its actually a 'clack' as I fret, and I think its from the correct fret, not others closer to the body
(by the way, is that 'lower' as in situated lower down the bass or 'higher' as in gives a higher frequency?)

It also isnt about the 'sound' of the strings as in 'brightness'

I guess it could be me fretting too hard / fast - but even when I am going over the top trying to fret REALLY lightly the 'clack' is still louder than I remember.
Also, the 'clack' got worse in all cases when I changed the strings (I am pretty sure).

It also seems to be worst on the E string

My daughter tried my P7 and complained about it. She has a late 90's (IIRC) Squire Standard Series Special PJ bass with very very old roundwound strings on it (bass bought second hand, she didnt want to change strings).
I am nearly 60 and still crap - she picks things up really quick, orderS of magnitude quicker.
I hate young people.

Is fret-string contact noise worse for flats?
&/or is it worse for newer strings?

I set up the relief, and also '2.4 to 2 mm at 17th fret" action with my feeler gauges (I'm a mechanic's son and an Engineer so like that kind of stuff)
I even checked the nut action or whatever its called

Or what else is going on?

Mostly this is out of intrigue, I am a very curious cat.

Thanks, and go gently on me,

Or dont

I can tell you from my experience with my Sire P5 that the bass came poorly set-up, and had significant fret buzz, which you are calling clank. I took the bass in for a local, highly skilled pro to set-up properly and problem solved. I can also tell you that the type of strings doesn't really matter, if the set-up is good, all types of strings will work for you. You should realize that different types of strings have different tensions so the set-up will be a little different for each type. Flats have higher tension, but can be set equally low as other strings if a fast action is desired. The rest of it comes down to your technique. You may be using too much pressure.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Newby question incoming - but very thick skin
I have only been 'playing' for about 14 months (my first instrument).
I play fingers and am working through Clash and the like songs
I dont slap.

With much the help from the Sire thread and quite some experimenting, I have found the strings I like on my Jazz V3 (D'Addario Chromes), Precision P5R (D'Addario Halfrounds / Rotosound Jazz 77's - not quite decided yet) and PJ P7 (GHS Pressurewounds)

All 3 came with D'Addario XL nickel Roundwounds, the V3 (2023) and P7 (2020) I bought new, the P5R (2024) second hand, but 'as new'.

I have now noticed that there is much more noise when the strings are pressed against the fret

This is not fret buzz - its actually a 'clack' as I fret, and I think its from the correct fret, not others closer to the body
(by the way, is that 'lower' as in situated lower down the bass or 'higher' as in gives a higher frequency?)

It also isnt about the 'sound' of the strings as in 'brightness'

I guess it could be me fretting too hard / fast - but even when I am going over the top trying to fret REALLY lightly the 'clack' is still louder than I remember.
Also, the 'clack' got worse in all cases when I changed the strings (I am pretty sure).

It also seems to be worst on the E string

My daughter tried my P7 and complained about it. She has a late 90's (IIRC) Squire Standard Series Special PJ bass with very very old roundwound strings on it (bass bought second hand, she didnt want to change strings).
I am nearly 60 and still crap - she picks things up really quick, orderS of magnitude quicker.
I hate young people.

Is fret-string contact noise worse for flats?
&/or is it worse for newer strings?

I set up the relief, and also '2.4 to 2 mm at 17th fret" action with my feeler gauges (I'm a mechanic's son and an Engineer so like that kind of stuff)
I even checked the nut action or whatever its called

Or what else is going on?

Mostly this is out of intrigue, I am a very curious cat.

Thanks, and go gently on me,

Or dont

Turn the treble control down on your amp. If you have the treble set above flat (noon), that will definitely give you clank and string noise with round wound strings.

 

[newfuture]

This can be 'fixed' with technique. Pull through the string-more parallel to the fingerboard-instead of pushing down into the fingerboard.

FWIW, I have noticed flats exacerbate this noise. My guess is greater surface area of the string making contact with the fret.

Of course, some folks dig it, it seems to be a substantial component of Steve Harris's tone.