New strings 'clack' on contact with fret?

[/\/\3phist0]

Point well taken. You are correct, I should not have gone outside my lane and messed with the amp, and it is not a fair comparison. I guess I'm still bleeding from the experience. There is a reason why experts earn their money in matters like this, and I just hope this individual can find one to get his bass set-up to perfection.

Except: luthier access is limited: and this endeavor is a simple one.

 

[GTHintz]

Newby question incoming - but very thick skin
I have only been 'playing' for about 14 months (my first instrument).
I play fingers and am working through Clash and the like songs
I dont slap.

With much the help from the Sire thread and quite some experimenting, I have found the strings I like on my Jazz V3 (D'Addario Chromes), Precision P5R (D'Addario Halfrounds / Rotosound Jazz 77's - not quite decided yet) and PJ P7 (GHS Pressurewounds)

All 3 came with D'Addario XL nickel Roundwounds, the V3 (2023) and P7 (2020) I bought new, the P5R (2024) second hand, but 'as new'.

I have now noticed that there is much more noise when the strings are pressed against the fret

This is not fret buzz - its actually a 'clack' as I fret, and I think its from the correct fret, not others closer to the body
(by the way, is that 'lower' as in situated lower down the bass or 'higher' as in gives a higher frequency?)

It also isnt about the 'sound' of the strings as in 'brightness'

I guess it could be me fretting too hard / fast - but even when I am going over the top trying to fret REALLY lightly the 'clack' is still louder than I remember.
Also, the 'clack' got worse in all cases when I changed the strings (I am pretty sure).

It also seems to be worst on the E string

My daughter tried my P7 and complained about it. She has a late 90's (IIRC) Squire Standard Series Special PJ bass with very very old roundwound strings on it (bass bought second hand, she didnt want to change strings).
I am nearly 60 and still crap - she picks things up really quick, orderS of magnitude quicker.
I hate young people.

Is fret-string contact noise worse for flats?
&/or is it worse for newer strings?

I set up the relief, and also '2.4 to 2 mm at 17th fret" action with my feeler gauges (I'm a mechanic's son and an Engineer so like that kind of stuff)
I even checked the nut action or whatever its called

Or what else is going on?

Mostly this is out of intrigue, I am a very curious cat.

Thanks, and go gently on me,

Or dont

Fresh strings will always have a shiny and clanky tone before they get played in. Especially bass strings. Your daughter doesn't have that because she's playing well broken in strings but yeah it's a normal thing to have string noise and more brightness in every way. Anything with frets goes through this phase. If you really hate it then you can try either GHS fast fret that'll mellow out the strings or even switch to fretless. They make lined fretless basses and it's absolutely doable for anyone to get used to it. Especially just starting out you'll probably pick up fretless faster than the ones who play fretted forever and then try to pick up fretless.

 

[LeighOnSea]

Thank you all for your help, very much appreciated
In Portugal, its not that these types of services dont exist, but I have found (over the last 30 years of being here) that its a lottery to find the good ones.
Well, as luck would have it, yesterday I found out that one of our students is an accomplished bass player and he recommended a luthier in Lisbon, 10 mins from my Uni. I went to see him, and it really seems like he knows what he is doing, and was not expensive.

I havent taken the bass to him yet, but am thinking of it as his price is less than buying the correct files
But that way, I wont have the experience of doing it myself.
Also, I am not 100 % convinced that the nut does need filing, let me explain why
1. He said the only way to do it right was to accurately measure the height of the fret and the height of the nut and the nut should be 10 thou higher (not 100% sure on exact figure as I was speaking in Portuguese about imperial thou and he as saying '0.ten' and I think he meant 0.010 so that caused some confusion). he showed me the custom electronic 'vernier' he used for that. I am quite good at recognising bravado and he wasnt like that at all and his little workshop was well kitted out and looked like a working workshop - tidy but not too clean.
2. There seem to be other ways of measuring this, some of which dont make much sense to me, e.g. capo at 2nd or 3rd fret
3. depending on the 'drapability' of the string (ability to deform around corners), a stiff (latteraly, not lengthwise) string will come up from tuner, over the bridge and not arc down as fast as a less stiff string. I tested this by pressing on the string between tuner and bridge and the string to first fret distance got bigger. So I am guessing that correct nut height (which is for getting correct string to lower fret distances right if I am correct) is a bit dependant on string type.
4. I noticed yesterday that even with the truss totally let off I only have 0.3 mm relief. The Sire manual says from 0..3 to 0.5 mm (although there is a typo there), and I am not sure why I cant get more than 0.3mm. So at this point I think, 'pause and think' am i missing something / Have I done something wrong in setup?
5. Action height, I have it set between 2.45 and 2.00 (E to G) from Fender but is this at 12th or a7th Fret (Sire say 17th but with much bigger values)

So I am tempted to take it to him to see what he says

I am also tempted to do it myself

I have a direct question for /\/\3phist0

What is the best way to measure nut height?
So I can be sure its not already correct / not not too high

I dont see much of a problem with the actual filing of the nut - its more knowing if its already too high.

 

[SteveCS]

This is not fret buzz - its actually a 'clack' as I fret, and I think its from the correct fret, not others closer to the body
(by the way, is that 'lower' as in situated lower down the bass or 'higher' as in gives a higher frequency?)

The answer is here...

Your left hand is clamping the string ... AHEAD of the note timing.

Ah, so I should be fretting only at the note timing as I finger, simultaneously?

Yes. Synchronisation is a key element in lots of areas of technique. Not only will good L/R synchronisation clean up a lot of extraneous noise it will also help you to make tempo gains whilst giving each note full value for a smooth legato style.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Thank you all for your help, very much appreciated
In Portugal, its not that these types of services dont exist, but I have found (over the last 30 years of being here) that its a lottery to find the good ones.
Well, as luck would have it, yesterday I found out that one of our students is an accomplished bass player and he recommended a luthier in Lisbon, 10 mins from my Uni. I went to see him, and it really seems like he knows what he is doing, and was not expensive.

I havent taken the bass to him yet, but am thinking of it as his price is less than buying the correct files
But that way, I wont have the experience of doing it myself.
Also, I am not 100 % convinced that the nut does need filing, let me explain why
1. He said the only way to do it right was to accurately measure the height of the fret and the height of the nut and the nut should be 10 thou higher (not 100% sure on exact figure as I was speaking in Portuguese about imperial thou and he as saying '0.ten' and I think he meant 0.010 so that caused some confusion). he showed me the custom electronic 'vernier' he used for that. I am quite good at recognising bravado and he wasnt like that at all and his little workshop was well kitted out and looked like a working workshop - tidy but not too clean.
2. There seem to be other ways of measuring this, some of which dont make much sense to me, e.g. capo at 2nd or 3rd fret
3. depending on the 'drapability' of the string (ability to deform around corners), a stiff (latteraly, not lengthwise) string will come up from tuner, over the bridge and not arc down as fast as a less stiff string. I tested this by pressing on the string between tuner and bridge and the string to first fret distance got bigger. So I am guessing that correct nut height (which is for getting correct string to lower fret distances right if I am correct) is a bit dependant on string type.
4. I noticed yesterday that even with the truss totally let off I only have 0.3 mm relief. The Sire manual says from 0..3 to 0.5 mm (although there is a typo there), and I am not sure why I cant get more than 0.3mm. So at this point I think, 'pause and think' am i missing something / Have I done something wrong in setup?
5. Action height, I have it set between 2.45 and 2.00 (E to G) from Fender but is this at 12th or a7th Fret (Sire say 17th but with much bigger values)

So I am tempted to take it to him to see what he says

I am also tempted to do it myself

I have a direct question for /\/\3phist0

What is the best way to measure nut height?
So I can be sure its not already correct / not not too high

I dont see much of a problem with the actual filing of the nut - its more knowing if its already too high.

Nut height?
This illustrates a simple method.

The Complete Guide To Bass Guitar Nut Height - BassOx

Thus, I have gathered all the information you need about Bass guitar nut height in one place, so that you won't have to look any further.

www.bassox.com

I sometimes play VERY HARD , use low gauge strings (30-98 or 35-100) and hate the open string to buzz. So I leave MINE a little higher.

Take one to the luthier, and watch. Ask them to explain the how and why.
Less than the cost of the files? That’s a no brainer. The luthier should do a full setup: bring NEW strings. This way you see the process so you can repeat it in the future.

If results are good: take the others.

There are MANY variables to “proper/good” setup, much is personal preference.


As to overall setup: I’ll lay out the high points of the methodology I use.
I set my neck DEAD FLAT NO RELIEF.
Tune to pitch.
Lower the strings at the bridge until they fret out while fretting the string at @ 17th-19th fret.
Raise the strings slightly till it rings without buzz while plucking lightly.
Play the same string one fret at a time back towards the nut.
I stop where I get a slight buzz, note that as a “high” fret. ( the one closer to the bridge from where I get the buzz)
Move the string out of the way, and hit lightly the fret with the smooth handle of a screwdriver right where that string sits to seat it further into the fretboard, not a lot of force is needed.
Test again: good? Continue back towards the nut and repeat.

Repeat for each string.

Now! You KNOW the frets are all as level as can be.
And: the lowest POSSIBLE action that bass can achieve.

Set a small relief in the neck which will raise the overall action a little, and IF needed, add more height at the bridge— go slow, small adjustments make big changes in the action.
The larger strings will need a bit more height off of the fretboard due to lower tension, and higher amplitude in vibration, than the higher strings.

Hope this all helps someone.

**** this is only one method, only by feel and mechanical interaction. It is no more or less accurate than measuring. I’ve had success with this as measuring DOES NOT take into account the variables of playing style string type, and compliance of string, the wildly different ways different strings vibrate. My method addresses those variables in a practical interactive manner.
Everyone who plays instruments I set up, grins from ear to ear: I must be doing SOMETHING right , lol

 

[LeighOnSea]

The answer is here...





Yes. Synchronisation is a key element in lots of areas of technique. Not only will good L/R synchronisation clean up a lot of extraneous noise it will also help you to make tempo gains whilst giving each note full value for a smooth legato style.

This is my conclusion, especially as it happens more when I am trying to speed up from slow on Police Truck (I try to learn slow and then gradually speed up - I never get anywhere near full speed, nor is that my priority.
The same note on the same string during other less stressful tunes doesnt give me as much clack
Also the new strings
And the type of string

I'm sorry for dragging this out so much, I get a little totally OCD in wanting to understand things , like a terrier, its just me, did help me in my research career though.
So thank you all, especially /\/phist0 and thank you for your other viewpoint @BassicJazzy - I am famous on a Linux forum for fixing things till they are broke BTW @agedhorse helped me a lot on my cab build, luckily I did listen - and now I am very happy to have found a luthier in Lisbon - the only problem is that he has a second hand Fender Deluxe P-Bass Special BK 2005 which caught my eye, and I already have a Marcus Miller P7, but the flesh is weak LOL

 

[/\/\3phist0]

This is my conclusion, especially as it happens more when I am trying to speed up from slow on Police Truck (I try to learn slow and then gradually speed up - I never get anywhere near full speed, nor is that my priority.
The same note on the same string during other less stressful tunes doesnt give me as much clack
Also the new strings
And the type of string

I'm sorry for dragging this out so much, I get a little totally OCD in wanting to understand things , like a terrier, its just me, did help me in my research career though.
So thank you all, especially /\/phist0 and thank you for your other viewpoint @BassicJazzy - I am famous on a Linux forum for fixing things till they are broke BTW @agedhorse helped me a lot on my cab build, luckily I did listen - and now I am very happy to have found a luthier in Lisbon - the only problem is that he has a second hand Fender Deluxe P-Bass Special BK 2005 which caught my eye, and I already have a Marcus Miller P7, but the flesh is weak LOL

Not a worry. These threads address concerns others have, who may not speak up, who can benefit now and in the future.
Let us know how it turns out.

 

[LeighOnSea]

Well,
I swapped back from the Chromes on the V3 jazz to the XL Nickel Rounds, and that made a big difference for the better
Also, now I have a range of sounds from my 3 basses here (P5R with Halfwounds, P7 with Pressurewounds)
And, I made big progress in fretting in the right place, not fretting so hard, and especially in timing, so none / almost none clack on all of them
I found the timing thing was best done by not trying to hard, kinda Like Douglas Adams wrote,

“The Guide says there is an art to flying", said Ford, "or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

Next week I'm going to take the V3 to that shop and see how a full set-up goes
Happy Easter

 

[BassicJazzy]

Well,
I swapped back from the Chromes on the V3 jazz to the XL Nickel Rounds, and that made a big difference for the better
Also, now I have a range of sounds from my 3 basses here (P5R with Halfwounds, P7 with Pressurewounds)
And, I made big progress in fretting in the right place, not fretting so hard, and especially in timing, so none / almost none clack on all of them
I found the timing thing was best done by not trying to hard, kinda Like Douglas Adams wrote,

Next week I'm going to take the V3 to that shop and see how a full set-up goes
Happy Easter

Glad that's working for you. I've never tried chromes, but have a lot of time on the XL nickels, and also the GHS pressure wounds. The XLs stay pretty bright for at least a month of playing, but the brightness in the pressure wounds drops off dramatically after just a couple weeks of playing. They then retain a nice mellow mid-low range that is very pleasing on my Jazz bass. At some point you might want to give tape wounds a try, I suggest going with lighter gauge which will be same gauge as your current strings. Tapes are perhaps the quietest, most forgiving strings I've ever played. They are quieter than flats. Anyway, I hope the set-up is to your liking, I think you will be pleased, and Happy Easter to you too.

 

[LeighOnSea]

Not a worry. These threads address concerns others have, who may not speak up, who can benefit now and in the future.
Let us know how it turns out.

I have now managed to almost get rid of the clack by changing my technique and have put the SS Chromes back on the V3
In the end, I wont go to the shop as it turns out it is 70 Euros and I have found that by setting up with 0 relief (rather than the 0.3 to 0.5 mm in the Sire manual) I have less clack and it feels better to me
In fact, that was one of the things that was concerning me - if I go to the shop for a setup, how can I tell them how I want it set up if I am too newbie to really know.
Learning learning learning