New to the blues, Advice please?

[Whousedtoplay]

Near the end of the set it finally dawned on me: It was his control of note length. Every note was held for precisely its full value, not a millisecond less.

P.S. It's only my vision, my ideas; therefore, you have different visions, post it, express it, but do not argue with that stubborn aging WUTP.


It's a very important point about the "note's length" for any bass player playing any kind of "easy-listening" groove-based music!
(And it comes BEFORE any kind of "microtiming" nuances - "in front/behind the beat"...)

Maybe, with "thinner" blues (band's) texture makes it (the note's length) more "visible"?

Yes, it's very important to know the length of those simple bass notes in blues. When I'm transcribing a bass line of a good bass player, in order to obtain a similar "feel", groove, sometimes I need to use even the 64th notes to properly articulate the note's length with a DAW, Guitar Pro, sequencer, etc...

(P.S. Attention, those who follow a different but "respected" school of thought about "non-artistic, non-feeling, non-grooving, academically-mechanical way of practicing,
please(!), disregard my comment!)


Also, especially in Blues, the drummers tend to play/hit their snare with some delay/behind the beat/"pocket"; therefore,
either you (as a bass player) should stop your note/s before that snare hit, or make sure you can "visibly" adjust it in order to match the drummer's snare. There is nothing more irritating for me to see/hear a negligent attitude of the bass player who sometimes stops that note before the snare, sometimes plays with the snare, sometimes plays behind the snare, etc...

Blues is all about "feel"...which can't be taught. So listening closely to the masters is a must.

Yes, it's all about that "feel". Any bass lines must have some kind of "feel" but Blues requires more of it!
My amateur advice for any beginner blues bass player.
I know, I know it's all about that form - the twelve-bar blues, and I have nothing against it, but...

For me, Blues starts with that Groove, Feel, Mood, Character, Attitude, etc... of just on one (1) root note.
At first(!), I don't care what kind of chord substitutes are used to "enhance" and embellished a chord progression in Blues.
It's all about that simple but dynamically and properly length-wise articulated groove with the right Feel, Mood, Character, Attitude.

When you are comfortable playing a simple Blues groove just on one root note, start adding other chord notes, etc...

(P.S. Attention, those who follow a different but "respected" school of thought about "non-artistic, non-feeling, non-grooving, academically-mechanical way of practicing,
please(!), disregard my comment!)

Here is another thing that tend to irritate me while listening (usually live) to a Blues band.

The band starts a song/a new song. The bass player is "all in" and providing that dynamically properly articulated groove with a correct feel, mood, but...
When a guitar player starts another "long" round of soloing batches the same bass player gets bored(???).
The feel, the mood, the groove, "the moment" is gone.
I don't like it at all.

 

[trigger happy]

Thanks so much to all who have offered guidance. I have been shedding and pretty happy with the overall beginning of this path. This is just the kind of information I have been seeking. Now to study, shed, listen and apply.

Plusses in my favor, I do have a great sense of rhythm and pocket. I do understand the Nashville numbers system so I know what you are all referring to in a 1-4-5, in any key. I know all my arpeggios inside and out and have the Mixolydian (Dominant 7) scale and sound down pat in 3 positions all over the neck. Those are the mechanics, now to learn the feel and groove and work it all into my playing. Thanks for the help on my journey, This promises to be a blast.

 

[ThudThudThud]

It's a very important point about the "note's length" for any bass player playing any kind of "easy-listening" groove-based music!
(And it comes BEFORE any kind of "microtiming" nuances - "in front/behind the beat"...)

I'm not a 'blues man' but have played enough to know that this is where the rubber meets the road. I'd recommend to the OP to really get note length nailed down. When I listen to good blues this is what always determines the groove for me.

 

[2clip]

Thanks so much to all who have offered guidance. I have been shedding and pretty happy with the overall beginning of this path. This is just the kind of information I have been seeking. Now to study, shed, listen and apply.

Plusses in my favor, I do have a great sense of rhythm and pocket. I do understand the Nashville numbers system so I know what you are all referring to in a 1-4-5, in any key. I know all my arpeggios inside and out and have the Mixolydian (Dominant 7) scale and sound down pat in 3 positions all over the neck. Those are the mechanics, now to learn the feel and groove and work it all into my playing. Thanks for the help on my journey, This promises to be a blast.

It sounds to me that you have all the tools. I think you'll kill it! Have fun with it! Good luck

 

[dlb1001]

Listen to some harp recordings by Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson, James Cotton and Kim Wilson. If you do go to a jam and a harp player is leading the song, you can be sure that they will call something from one of these harp guys. Sometimes, they will want you to play a certain bass line and will play it on their harp to give you a hint.

 

[Phalex]

Listen to some harp recordings by Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson, James Cotton and Kim Wilson. If you do go to a jam and a harp player is leading the song, you can be sure that they will call something from one of these harp guys. Sometimes, they will want you to play a certain bass line and will play it on their harp to give you a hint.

I played a benefit once with a whole bunch of local blues bands. At the end of the night, they got a bunch of guys from different bands up for a big jam to close out the show. I got tapped to play bass. There must have been 10 or 12 guys that played harmonica, and a slew of guitar players that took turns coming up and taking a ride. It was a blast, but MAN that was a long set!

 

[Aquilador]

Every time I hear a modern blues band with a brite clanky modern bass tone it drives me nuts. The tone knob is also your friend.especially if you are using rounwound strings. Don't be afraid of mudd. Also don't be afraid of BIG FAT notes. You don't always have to play a lot. Sometimes it's what you don't play that matters.

Willie Dixon is essentially listening...

Also..... no picks allowed!

Absolutely!

 

[trigger happy]

Update on this... Unfortunately the gentleman that I was talking to about playing with and was all excited to give this a shot has apparently "flaked out" and I haven't heard from since. Maybe I scared him away with my enthusiasm.

That being said, I have put time in the shed and now know and can play a 12 bar 1-4-5 in all keys, intro's and outro's, turnarounds and have dipped my feet into walking it all. I'm not quite as clean as I want to be yet, but I can pass in a live situation, thanks to all of your help.

Another interesting thing of note, I spent some time while on vacation over the 4th of July with my mother and her husband's blues mentor in Iowa. (I'm from Idaho) He has been playing bass and guitar in blues bands for 40 years and he sat down with me and gave me some lessons. It was great fun and I learned a lot. He is very impressed that I pick up so quickly and mentioned to my mother that he is afraid that as much as I know and as far ahead as I am with only a year of serious training under my belt that I will get bored of it quickly. Maybe , maybe not but I am sure enjoying it for now. Now I just wish that I had more people locally to play with.

Meanwhile, more time in the shed. Thanks for all of your guidance.

 

[Spin Doctor]

It was great fun and I learned a lot. He is very impressed that I pick up so quickly and mentioned to my mother that he is afraid that as much as I know and as far ahead as I am with only a year of serious training under my belt that I will get bored of it quickly.

Naah... If you have any kind of musical imagination, you should be ok. The only bass players that get bored from playing the blues are boring bass players. It helps a lot if you have killer guitarists in the band though...

 

[tb4sbp]

Sorry to hear that the guy you were going to start something flaked out on you. But happy to hear about your time with a veteran blues player. Sounds like you have really come a long way in a short time. I do not think you will become bored with the blues as it is the root of most music today. And anything that becomes "easy" for you means you can relax more, hear the band better and interact with the crowds more. Best of luck in your future endeavors!

 

[5below]

I just discovered Eric Burden and the Animals "Animals Blues Years" compilation album on YouTube. Lots of items to emulate and learn from there.

 

[Badwater]

Update on this... Unfortunately the gentleman that I was talking to about playing with and was all excited to give this a shot has apparently "flaked out" and I haven't heard from since. Maybe I scared him away with my enthusiasm.

That being said, I have put time in the shed and now know and can play a 12 bar 1-4-5 in all keys, intro's and outro's, turnarounds and have dipped my feet into walking it all. I'm not quite as clean as I want to be yet, but I can pass in a live situation, thanks to all of your help.

Another interesting thing of note, I spent some time while on vacation over the 4th of July with my mother and her husband's blues mentor in Iowa. (I'm from Idaho) He has been playing bass and guitar in blues bands for 40 years and he sat down with me and gave me some lessons. It was great fun and I learned a lot. He is very impressed that I pick up so quickly and mentioned to my mother that he is afraid that as much as I know and as far ahead as I am with only a year of serious training under my belt that I will get bored of it quickly. Maybe , maybe not but I am sure enjoying it for now. Now I just wish that I had more people locally to play with.

Meanwhile, more time in the shed. Thanks for all of your guidance.

EXCELLENT. That's great to hear. And that is how people become blues players. All the great blues players are first introduced to the blues music by hearing it, and eventually getting to meet and play with a blues band or player. Genuine blues has intricacies only found in the blues music, and those unique moves and technique are what give the blues music it's feel and sound. And learning them will help you play a variety of other styles of music. That's because, the Blues DNA can be found in all forms of modern pop music. Even modern hiphop, rap, and Reggae. Best wishes on your success as a blues player.

 

[Russell L]

Sometimes b7 fits, sometime M6 fits instead.

 

[SurferJoe46]

Before I say this, I read every post and for the most part agree with all of them.

Maybe though, there are a couple of points that I would make here:

1] LISTEN and listen hard to anticipate the changes, rhythm and accentuated parts of the songs you're playing. It's fun to noodle around in your bedroom - but it's sloppy and ignorant to do so in the group.

If you play the noodles around at home, you'll find all the incidentals and accents to the key/mode and you'll be able to recognize the boxes you'll need after two or three notes into the song.​

2] DEVELOP a third ear, and (another eye would be nice too) - so you know what's going on around you and you'll hear the 'hints' that there's a change coming up at the end of the next line.

It gets easier after a while.

I have no 3rd point - but I have a little advice that worked/works for me: Find a guitar player who can hold the groove while you work on the bass lines. You'll need someone of serious devotion to you and someone of serious devotion to the musical style - for him to play over and over, time after time, the song that you are trying to learn and let you experiment with a bass line that finally works.

Fortunately, I have such a friend who is interested in us both honing our skills - eg: anticipating the changes, 'feeling' the next turn-around, or slide, or when to be quiet or very nearly so.



addendum, Aug 22, 2017?............

I just re-read this whole post and I think l have a third point now..........

3] In developing a better sounding root note....... and essentially playing for more warmth and feel... l use a moderate amount of vibrato..... wiggling if you will, your fretted note since this technique won't work with an open string...... to present a sound that draws the listeners ears.

The problem is that most music played by humans is tempered, not perfect. If you don't believe me, i have an interesting story about George Lucas an me talking about Star Wars, the first totally digitized movie.

But there's something more sinister afoot here.

The time to use this technique is when you back down for a guitar solo, a harmonica or the singer; the bassist will allow the other artist to be spotighted. You'd be amazed at the appreciation the soloist will give you when you play for them.

I find this "backing 'way down" works, to make the solos and special passages that the rest of the group feels is their territory as distinctly THEIR temporary playground.

Vibrato, besides sounding very professional, helps cover a minor pitch glitch by a singer.

I try to remember that the singer, unlike your bass has no frets. (Fretless players also use vibrato to cover their pitch failures...... or should while holding a single note, anyway). It ain't always about artistic note rendering.

Notice i didnt mention "intonation" as l feel that quality is the mechanically numerical pitch value of the 12th fret verses the open string tuned variation of the instrument itself.

Watch the Number 1 Chair violinist put in lots of vibrato during their solos if you doubt it. Vibrato isn't always about beautiful efx......sometimes it helps to use vibrato to hit the correct note at least once in a while.

Okay, that was just a teensy bit sarcastic...... but as a bassist, we work for the other artist IMHO.

 

[Agent_Smith]

Don't forget Eric Clapton! I cut my blues teeth on him and early Allman Brothers stuff.

Like others have said, it's all about the feel and that takes time and practice to develop. Learn the progressions and the blues scale (which is just the pentatonic plus one note), start off simple with roots and fifths and leave the fretboard wankery to the guitars.