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New to this and forums in general seeking knowledge

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wanderingchords

Guest
Apr 10, 2014
7
1
clearwater FL
#1
Decided to make my presence known and say hello! I am very new to forums in general so if I ever post something that may seem out of place or in poor etiquette as far as these things are concerned please let me know, I also joined some other forums as I am a fluent guitar player as well. I am looking to gain knowledge and possibly even network as long as I am not in a gigging band at the moment. also I am making a switch from mostly playing rock to almost exclusively jazz and its a whole new world to me. I am a fairly proficient player but I struggle with reading notation and other things that would be expected of a 20-something who has played mostly punk and rock most of his short career haha. doing good so far but like I said just looking for a little advice and guidance so please feel free to impart any knowledge you care to on me! for starters what thread to look to for questions a young somewhat new jazz guy might have, tunes being called at jams, where I might find some good jams,(im in tampa fl btw) and things like that, any way thanx for reading look forward to hearing from some one!

~Steve~
 
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#5
Will do thanx never thought of using google to search the sight, ive lurked on here for years, pretty much since i bought my bass like 6 years ago, between this website and hosting a blues jam(AKA guitarist roundup so i was always on bass), and a brief stint of lessons with the great Jeff Berlin is how i learned to play bass haha THANX!
 
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#6
Punk to jazz? Pretty different cultures, with a few simalarites... so, IMEO, getting a jazz bass teacher will send you on your way hundredths of times faster than killing gigs and learning from each kill. Best piece of advice I can possibly give you: "Don't be arrogant with your teacher." "You know how to play so you know how to play this music" is way off base. Extremely likely that you don't know either. Do what the teacher says, verbatim, absolutely, or get a different teacher.
 
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#7
thanx for your response tom lane yes punk to jazz is very different but i find the similarity being in the organized chaos lol, but anyway can you elaborate on your advice im not sure i got the meaning of "don't be arrogant with your teacher" and "you know how to play so you know how to play this music" do you mean just because im a somewhat decent bass player don't assume i can play jazz? cuz i certainly don't, and certainly don't think im a great player either. lol that's why i want to learn and hear what anyone would love to share with me. :)
 
#8
wanderingchords said:
thanx for your response tom lane yes punk to jazz is very different but i find the similarity being in the organized chaos lol, but anyway can you elaborate on your advice im not sure i got the meaning of "don't be arrogant with your teacher" and "you know how to play so you know how to play this music" do you mean just because im a somewhat decent bass player don't assume i can play jazz? cuz i certainly don't, and certainly don't think im a great player either. lol that's why i want to learn and hear what anyone would love to share with me. :)
Click to expand...

Fair enough; smart questions, IME.

It's a very common experience that experienced players assume that their instructors are too basic for them, and sometimes that's correct, but much of the time, jazz and classical teachers require a level of harmonic and rhythmic accuracy that other genre's don't, and the students don't appreciate the difference, and don't appreciate being sent back to the "1st grade shed" when that's exactly where they need to start. So, pick a teacher and spend 6 months with them before you decide that they're not "right" for you because "you know all this stuff already" because, crossing genre's, generally, you don't.

There is certainly a similarity between punk and jazz as "organized chaos" and "instantaneous composition" but, (although I'm not a punk expert, my experience indicates that) punk "tends" to have much less stringent requirements about intonation and rhythm than jazz. That doesn't mean that their aren't exceptions, because there certainly are, but, as genre's go, classical music tends to require the most accurate harmony and rhythm, punk the least, and jazz is somewhat in between, tending in more modern times toward classical. So, modern jazz has less tolerance for "slop" than 1930s jazz. "Slop" = "inaccuracy".

Jazz, as a genre, requires the most "educated" ears of any of the genre's I'm familiar with because it has the most complex harmony and, as a music, relies on that harmony being accurately recognized by the performers, and, if you're coming from Punk, Rock, or Classical, jazz's harmonic detail will require an order of magnitude adjustment. And, yeah, jazzers can easily tell when you're faking it. Trust me.

Interestingly, IME, jazz is a relatively static and limited rhythmic genre, similar to folk and rock, and at the least, classical music, has a more sophisticated sense of rhythm.

The cool thing about "jazz" is that it can "incorporate", literally, any, other music and still remain "jazz". Some of it's "world music", some of it's "jazzical", and only some small part of the audience will like either, but... jazz isn't for making money these days, so make YOUR art, not what sells."
 
#9
Tom Lane said:
Fair enough; smart questions, IME.

It's a very common experience that experienced players assume that their instructors are too basic for them, and sometimes that's correct, but much of the time, jazz and classical teachers require a level of harmonic and rhythmic accuracy that other genre's don't, and the students don't appreciate the difference, and don't appreciate being sent back to the "1st grade shed" when that's exactly where they need to start. So, pick a teacher and spend 6 months with them before you decide that they're not "right" for you because "you know all this stuff already" because, crossing genre's, generally, you don't.

There is certainly a similarity between punk and jazz as "organized chaos" and "instantaneous composition" but, (although I'm not a punk expert, my experience indicates that) punk "tends" to have much less stringent requirements about intonation and rhythm than jazz. That doesn't mean that their aren't exceptions, because there certainly are, but, as genre's go, classical music tends to require the most accurate harmony and rhythm, punk the least, and jazz is somewhat in between, tending in more modern times toward classical. So, modern jazz has less tolerance for "slop" than 1930s jazz. "Slop" = "inaccuracy".

Jazz, as a genre, requires the most "educated" ears of any of the genre's I'm familiar with because it has the most complex harmony and, as a music, relies on that harmony being accurately recognized by the performers, and, if you're coming from Punk, Rock, or Classical, jazz's harmonic detail will require an order of magnitude adjustment. And, yeah, jazzers can easily tell when you're faking it. Trust me.

Interestingly, IME, jazz is a relatively static and limited rhythmic genre, similar to folk and rock, and at the least, classical music, has a more sophisticated sense of rhythm.

The cool thing about "jazz" is that it can "incorporate", literally, any, other music and still remain "jazz". Some of it's "world music", some of it's "jazzical", and only some small part of the audience will like either, but... jazz isn't for making money these days, so make YOUR art, not what sells."
Click to expand...

All fantastic advice, and though im young and come from the punk and rock world and im a decent player, i wanna learn the finer points of music. even if i return to the other genres in a few years, i wanna spend the time between learning my instrument, a new style of music, and music in general, how it works and how to make it. And that response of being too good for the material was beat out of me when i realized i could probably pick a few measure of a solo from giant steps by ear and play it, but if it were on paper i wouldnt even recognize it, im stumbling through "a child is born" lol so im very humbled by it all. And im also working through "modern method for electric guitar vol. 1" cuz i play guitar also. All very humbling but making ne more determind to get through it but most importantly internalize all the material fully before moving on. Thankyou so much for your advice! Im very very grateful!
 
#10
wanderingchords said:
...... for starters what thread to look to for questions a young somewhat new jazz guy might have, tunes being called at jams, where I might find some good jams,(im in tampa fl btw) and things like that, any way thanx for reading look forward to hearing from some one! ~Steve~
Click to expand...
Start with this free E-book Jamey Aebersold Jazz: Free Jamey Aebersold Jazz Handbook and then look into the bass section - there is a wealth of knowledge at this site.

Jamey Aebersold Jazz: Bass

Have fun.
 
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#12
wanderingchords said:
Decided to make my presence known and say hello! I am very new to forums in general so if I ever post something that may seem out of place or in poor etiquette as far as these things are concerned please let me know, I also joined some other forums as I am a fluent guitar player as well. I am looking to gain knowledge and possibly even network as long as I am not in a gigging band at the moment. also I am making a switch from mostly playing rock to almost exclusively jazz and its a whole new world to me. I am a fairly proficient player but I struggle with reading notation and other things that would be expected of a 20-something who has played mostly punk and rock most of his short career haha. doing good so far but like I said just looking for a little advice and guidance so please feel free to impart any knowledge you care to on me! for starters what thread to look to for questions a young somewhat new jazz guy might have, tunes being called at jams, where I might find some good jams,(im in tampa fl btw) and things like that, any way thanx for reading look forward to hearing from some one!

~Steve~
Click to expand...
I had a very similar situation to yours only you have several years advantage going for you. I played rock all my musical life until I decided to switch it up in my mid forties. I wanted to learn to play jazz changes so I enrolled in Jazz College. It helped immensely. If you can do that it is your best bet. Your instructors will throw you into situations that will flatter your strengths and build up your weaknesses until you are constantly improving, but having so much fun doing it you won't even notice that you have played a million wrong notes in big band class. Buy yourself a Real Book which contains all of the jazz standards and find a jazz piano player or guitarist to jam them out with you. Get some private lessons and learn theory and how to read. The world of jazz and fusion is much deeper and involved than playing punk and rock which relies mostly on emotion. There are some great videos out there by players like Marcus Miller, Victor Wooten, Jaco Pastorious to name a few. Immerse yourself in them to assimilate the various styles and techniques. Do these things and you will find yourself improving at a rate you won't believe. There are no short cuts. You have to do the work...but the rewards WILL come. Do it everyday with joy and you will see and hear the rewards. Best of luck to you!
 
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