I may not understand what you mean. It's the LMT76 at the end of the chain. 1:10 in.
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New: Zoom B3n Multi-Effects
- Thread starter CharlieC
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- b3n multi-effects zoom
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I just downloaded and installed Span in Audacity. I can't wait until I have the time to mess with this! Thanks! Charlie C you should do this, I think you would find great uses for this tool.
I would if I could figure out how to. I think that given its maximum ratio of 20:1 it's not actually a barricade limiter. I also think it doesn't have the controls one would need to say "just limit the output signal to 0." I have limiters in my DAW that can do this but one way they do that is with lookahead, which introduces latency and isn't an option in a pedal.
I get it. Perhaps it needs more signal coming in to hit the wall? As time goes by we can all figure out a lot of what's going on by utilizing Span. I, for one, can't wait to put pink noise or some sweeps through my Thunderfunk and find out once and for all what those amazing Timbre and Enhance knobs do to ones signal.
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Very cool... In your demo I noticed that little clip at @3:43 seems to have occurred when you hit the strings a bit harder. You may not need it as you've almost ironed it out, but I realized the LMT-76 doesn't have the "attack" parameter like the original 1176
B3n Levels (...continued)
A few weeks ago I shared my unity gain strategy with regards to B3n effect levels and keeping them approximately the same when a given effect is either on or off.
Although this strategy generally works well, there is a major caveat worthy of discussion and which could be of value in patch creation.
The B3n is no doubt working under a large amount of headroom to support the wide and varied bass guitar outputs that will connect to it in the real world. From weak passive pickups to ultra-hot actives and preamps, the B3n input was widened to service them all and it is likely that good headroom is being left unused.
Surely an internal signal level ceiling must exist, but depending on what is plugged into the B3n, one may never effectively utilize it. There is performance to be gained by optimizing the level in the signal chain once and then maintaining it down the line via the unity gain strategy.
If you have ever tried to maintain unity gain using any of the B3n amp models, you may have noticed that the resulting VOL parameter is likely a very low number. This is now an opportunity to bring up the working signal level.
With baseline Patch and Master volumes both at 100 values, using an amp model, normalize the level using the amp model's VOL parameter. Using one's ears, further approach the ceiling, but leave ample cushion to avoid clipping. With this new and improved working signal level, simply maintain unity gain down the line. Benefits of this more optimized internal working signal level include improved dynamics, model performance, and signal-to-noise ratio.
In summary, depending on the output of one's bass, the amount of unused B3n headroom can vary greatly, but is likely ripe for the taking.
Cheers!
A few weeks ago I shared my unity gain strategy with regards to B3n effect levels and keeping them approximately the same when a given effect is either on or off.
Although this strategy generally works well, there is a major caveat worthy of discussion and which could be of value in patch creation.
The B3n is no doubt working under a large amount of headroom to support the wide and varied bass guitar outputs that will connect to it in the real world. From weak passive pickups to ultra-hot actives and preamps, the B3n input was widened to service them all and it is likely that good headroom is being left unused.
Surely an internal signal level ceiling must exist, but depending on what is plugged into the B3n, one may never effectively utilize it. There is performance to be gained by optimizing the level in the signal chain once and then maintaining it down the line via the unity gain strategy.
If you have ever tried to maintain unity gain using any of the B3n amp models, you may have noticed that the resulting VOL parameter is likely a very low number. This is now an opportunity to bring up the working signal level.
With baseline Patch and Master volumes both at 100 values, using an amp model, normalize the level using the amp model's VOL parameter. Using one's ears, further approach the ceiling, but leave ample cushion to avoid clipping. With this new and improved working signal level, simply maintain unity gain down the line. Benefits of this more optimized internal working signal level include improved dynamics, model performance, and signal-to-noise ratio.
In summary, depending on the output of one's bass, the amount of unused B3n headroom can vary greatly, but is likely ripe for the taking.
Cheers!
Nice post Charlie. Really interesting. I think there are three areas:
Still, Charlie's point is valid: it seems likely we can use internal headroom for stronger signals among and between effects, and then dial it back once we get to the output stage.
- Input range: passive vs active
- Internal signal processing range (I think this is where you're mainly focused)
- Output range.
Still, Charlie's point is valid: it seems likely we can use internal headroom for stronger signals among and between effects, and then dial it back once we get to the output stage.
Great posts @Spblat and @CharlieC and a really important concept to spend time getting right, I think. I have an active bass (most of the time anyway), so I am pretty confident I am putting enough in for #1.
For #2, I use my ears to keep the level (i.e., apparent loudness) consistent between effects within a patch, and between patches, where desired. (I generally have a compressor as the first effect and try to get a pretty hot level out of it.)
I am not sure about #3, though - what is considered a maximum acceptable level to send into a DI, or does this vary, or even matter?. An additional constraint for me is that I go directly into a power amp from the B3n, so the output level on the B3n is essentially my volume control, and if it turns out I should reduce it somewhat for the DI, I have now affected my stage level.
For #2, I use my ears to keep the level (i.e., apparent loudness) consistent between effects within a patch, and between patches, where desired. (I generally have a compressor as the first effect and try to get a pretty hot level out of it.)
I am not sure about #3, though - what is considered a maximum acceptable level to send into a DI, or does this vary, or even matter?. An additional constraint for me is that I go directly into a power amp from the B3n, so the output level on the B3n is essentially my volume control, and if it turns out I should reduce it somewhat for the DI, I have now affected my stage level.
What I have found is that the B3n internally clips before the DI receives (or sends) more than it's bargaining for. Remember that a DI is intended to go into a mixer, which has a trim dial at the top of the strip (separate from the fader control). If the DI is too hot or too weak, the engineer can tune that during sound check.
OK - so if it sounds good, it is good! Well that will at least let me crank it to get some more volume when needed.
I wish the B3n had a physical or virtual trim dial to level the bass signal prior to DSP. That and a clip LED. That and metering for the compressor models. Good luck with that!
Yes! Does anybody know if a flagship multiFX like Line 6 helix even does that?
I know for certain that the AxeFxII has a Global Input level trim designed to maximize signal-to-noise going into the initial A/D converters. I'm guessing that their other, newer products offer the same (AX8, FX8). As well, all of the AxeFXII's amp models have a virtual Input Trim to further refine gain staging, or to make the virtual guitar amp's input more-or- less "hot", so that they may be tweaked to behave according to the guitar used and the preferences of the user.
I'm gonna cheat on my B3n for an upcoming gig. Outdoor stage, hired production company for a summer concert series. Looks like at least two 2X18 subs per side in the PA. Rather than request they hpf my bass where I like, I'm gonna use the MS-60B and run the AcBsPre, using its HPF to give the sound guys my bass, with the extreme LF rolled off. I live in the low mids.
Why not simply use a B3n cabinet sim (100%) with inherent HPF and optional Bottom adjustment?
Maybe in the first upgrade!I wish the B3n had a physical or virtual trim dial to level the bass signal prior to DSP. That and a clip LED. That and metering for the compressor models. Good luck with that!
To my ears the B3n cabinet sims with 10" drivers seem to drop-off at around 40 Hz. Combine this with the ability to further truncate lows with the Bottom parameter and I think you would have a winner. Take your pick and then audition them for this purpose.
I tend to HPF a bit higher than that. I'll fire up my mixer when I get home and have a look, but I believe I'm up around 65Hz
