newbie, live sound for pub

[chickenJames]

hello all

I've been playing around on lots of instruments for years, and I've finally ended in a good amateur band with good gear, and I want to try to get a nice sound on Saturday night. We have a pub gig (paid ), small-medium sized room with something like 80-100 people in it.

So - here's the situation - please advise on what's likely to be good or sucky

5 piece band doing pop/funk/soul/rock/disco covers

guitar (100w MESA & PRS Custom)
keys
drums
singer
bass (yours truly)

Drums, vox, keys go through the PA, which is 2x 15" Mackie Thump

My setup looks like
EBMM Stingray 2EQ ->
polytune -> envelope filter -> Boss BEQ -> EHX big muff pi deluxe -> Small Stone -> TC vortex -> TC HOF -> MXR compressor
-> MB CMD121P and NY121P

I generally have the low end to myself - the keyboard is not heavy with her left hand

and we're using IEMs

All the bass is coming from my little stack - I guess we could put it the PA possibly as well but it's probably better to use the low end of the PA to boost the kick a bit.


So - what would you do, where to start?
I generally set the amp fairly flat, with maybe a little mid boost.
Stingray setting: volume and bass on full, and I'll vary treble between OFF and nearly all on depending on whether the song is classic or modern.

Ideas, gotchas, things to change, tips would be much appreciated

thanks!

 

[moody]

The 2x15 pa cab. Jack of no trades.

It is not a sub and will not sound balanced as a top bin. The sub stuff Will muddy up the vocals and it won't be tall enough to get the horn over the crowds heads. Sorry, pet peave of mine.

It would be doing yourself a favour to get single 12" top cabs and a single seperate proper sub.

Does somebody that knows what they are doing run the PA? If not you are better to just run vocals through it and do everything else off stage sound.

 

[chickenJames]

we've got some Mackie 12" powered cabs as well that match the 15" ones if that's any help

 

[modulusman]

The 2x15 pa cab. Jack of no trades.

It is not a sub and will not sound balanced as a top bin. The sub stuff Will muddy up the vocals and it won't be tall enough to get the horn over the crowds heads. Sorry, pet peave of mine.

It would be doing yourself a favour to get single 12" top cabs and a single seperate proper sub.

Does somebody that knows what they are doing run the PA? If not you are better to just run vocals through it and do everything else off stage sound.

I don't think Mackie makes a thump with dual 15s. The OP probably was meaning they have 2 cabs each with a single 15. If they are the older thumps then they suck as far as SPL goes. By adding bass and kick they will suck even more.

 

[AlembicPlayer]

I agree with moody
in your setup, I would run only vocals and kick, snare thru the PA (and your keys)
with a 100 watt guitar rig and your bass rig, no need to run into the PA
the big trick here is to keep stage volume as low as possible.


good luck and have fun!

 

[chickenJames]

I agree with moody
in your setup, I would run only vocals and kick, snare thru the PA (and your keys)
with a 100 watt guitar rig and your bass rig, no need to run into the PA
the big trick here is to keep stage volume as low as possible.


good luck and have fun!

yes, that's exactly what we're doing. The drums are fully miced anyway - they need to be for the IEMs. And obviously the IEMs are intended to cut the stage volume - there's almost no vox monitoring on stage.

The only downside is that the stage volume from the guitar and bass backline can't be controlled from the desk - except by the engineer waving at us!

So - the kind of thing I'm also interested in getting ideas on is how I should be setting up my EQ. I've got a longish lead so I can stand way out past the FOH.
Placement of my cabs, should I use the EQ pedal or the MB EQ controls, etc.
I've read and agreed with the other threads about not scooping, but are there any good tricks or sequences of adjustment that you'd recommend to get a good tone that sounds solid and clear, and cuts through without booming?
As well as the usual EQ, my amp has VLE (cuts highs) and VQF (scoops). Any recommendations for these?

 

[moody]

Given that you don't have subs. Assuming a very basic mixer and you want any auxes for your monitors. Also assume you don't have a crossover.

Run mono (forget stereo). Daisy chain the 12" cabs off the left channel of your mixer. Pan all vocals left and get them on stands above everybody's heads.

Daisy chain the two 15's of the right hand side of the mixer, pan kick and keys channels to the right (make sure that the keys is giving you a mono signal otherwise you could have phase issues). Put these on the floor. These aren't subs but at least it's keeping the low end content out of the mains. Also, if the speakers can't handle the kick and die you still have your vocals going.

 

[Downunderwonder]

The 15 + horn Mackie Thumps of late sound decent enough to me. The biggest gotcha you're looking at is the 100w Mesa getting turned up past 2 in the pub.

 

[chickenJames]

Given that you don't have subs. Assuming a very basic mixer and you want any auxes for your monitors. Also assume you don't have a crossover.

Run mono (forget stereo). Daisy chain the 12" cabs off the left channel of your mixer. Pan all vocals left and get them on stands above everybody's heads.

Daisy chain the two 15's of the right hand side of the mixer, pan kick and keys channels to the right (make sure that the keys is giving you a mono signal otherwise you could have phase issues). Put these on the floor. These aren't subs but at least it's keeping the low end content out of the mains. Also, if the speakers can't handle the kick and die you still have your vocals going.

cool, thanks, that all makes sense to me

The 15 + horn Mackie Thumps of late sound decent enough to me. The biggest gotcha you're looking at is the 100w Mesa getting turned up past 2 in the pub.

LOL our guitarist is quite tasteful (honestly), so that doesn't worry me



What I'm not sure about at all is how to get my own sound really good. I know what sounds nice to me with or without the band, but what do you guys use as a setup procedure? I'm interesting in things like - how do you EQ to avoid room boom?
do I start flat, then tweak the low end then the mid? is it better to use the amp EQ or my Boss graphic? do it with the band, without, etc?

thanks for all the ideas so far, this is really helpful

 

[Downunderwonder]

You're way ahead of the usual pub game with IEM. How many individual mixes do you get?

IEM complicates things beyond my experience. Not many here will have played to the room with their rig while having both a tech out front and IEM but no subs.

Disclaimers over, you can EQ yourself from out front with nobody there right? That's what I would do. Make it bit more bassy later to account for the room filling up with bodies. Then hope the tech gives you the thumbs up.

 

[chickenJames]

we've been gigging (infrequently) for a couple of years - I'm just trying to take things to the next level !

the desk is a big Allen and Heath thing, I think it's a Qu16 or something like that. It can do something like 6 different IEM mixes, and we're using it like that

Yes I can EQ myself from the front by using a long lead, and as I'm usually the first to be making noises during setup that's what I'll do
When you say a bit more bassy, I guess that means either the bass knob on the MB or the left hand 2 sliders on the graphic? not the knob on my Stingray? I usually run the actual knobs on the 'ray at: volume 100%, treble variable depending on the song, bass 100%

 

[theduke1]

Run just vocals through the pa with maybe a little kick. Rent a stage amp for keys and run all music from stack amps. This will be your best shot at success.

 

[moody]

Run just vocals through the pa with maybe a little kick. Rent a stage amp for keys and run all music from stack amps. This will be your best shot at success.

This is essentially what I was talking about running just the vocals through the 12" speakers. The 15" speakers through the right channel being the same as having on stage amps for them.

 

[modulusman]

The 15 + horn Mackie Thumps of late sound decent enough to me. The biggest gotcha you're looking at is the 100w Mesa getting turned up past 2 in the pub.

Well the newer ones will get twice as loud as the A series at least on paper.

 

[morgansterne]

I play keys in one band and use IEM's. I've done dozens of gigs with that band and I've never once brought an amp. The other band members hear keys in their wedges.
If everyone's used to hearing keys in the in-ears then there's no need to being a keyboard amp.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I play keys in one band and use IEM's. I've done dozens of gigs with that band and I've never once brought an amp. The other band members hear keys in their wedges.
If everyone's used to hearing keys in the in-ears then there's no need to being a keyboard amp.

I think he was concerned for key tone out front without subs.

They don't call them thumps for nought.

 

[moody]

I play keys in one band and use IEM's. I've done dozens of gigs with that band and I've never once brought an amp. The other band members hear keys in their wedges.
If everyone's used to hearing keys in the in-ears then there's no need to being a keyboard amp.

We are talking about not running keys through a (vocal only) pa. If no amp how are the audience meant to hear them.

 

[robd]

Since no one has answered his questions about how to set his amp eq's...here goes

Start flat.
Listen.

Listen, with the band playing, usually a tone that cuts thru a band and sounds great in the mix doesn't sound so great by itself, so listen with everyone playing and adjust. . If it's too boomy out front cut the lows. Lost in the mix, add mids. Need more definition, add higher mids/highs. The key is to listen. Be careful adjusting the eq for on stage. It sounds way different out front than where you are standing. If your soundman is good ask him to listen and direct you on what to add or subtract. He is out front, you are not.

Listen...adjust...like..stop messing with the knobs and play

ymmv

 

[morgansterne]

We are talking about not running keys through a (vocal only) pa. If no amp how are the audience meant to hear them.

Who's "we"? Run keys through the pa, sub or no sub. That's my advice.

 

[moody]

Who's "we"? Run keys through the pa, sub or no sub. That's my advice.

Why treat keys differently from other instruments?

The idea is to keep the low end out of top boxes so that they can reproduce vocals more effectively. If the keyboard player is sparing with the left hand then that should be ok.