Newbie question on Willis "Fingerboard Harmony"/Passing Tones

[saresu.bass]

Hi,

Ive just bought "Fingerboard Harmony" and I'm scalping my head trying to figure this out;

"Passing tones is a note played on a weak beat that is a whole step or less from the notes before and after it"

But at 4/4, lets say I'm on C on the 5th fret/G string on beat 1 and I want to go down to F, so starting at C 5th fret/beat one, Cb 4th/beat 2, Bb 3rd fret/beat 3, A or Ab beat 4 and?? from C following the whole or half step concept I have no choice but to put the A or Ab on the beat 4, either way in this case I have to jump to F as the only next choice for beat 1 of F7 Chord, so it'll be major or minor 3rd instead of the whole or half step taught by the book.
What is it that I'm missing?

Thanks

 

[Whousedtoplay]

If you insist on starting with C on the G string/5th fret, why don't you try the following notes in that Cm7 | F7 chord progression (from Gary Willi's tutorial) :

C (G string)- Bb(G string) - G(D string) - Gb(D string) | F(D string)...
or
C (G string) - B (G string)- Bb (G string)- G#(G string) | A(G string)...
or
C(G string) - Bb(G string) - G (G string)- G#(G string) | A(G string)...
or
C (G string)- A(G string) - Bb (G string)- B (G string) | C(G string)...
or
C (G string) - A(open A) - Bb(A string) - B (A string)| C (A string)...
or
C (G string) - D(open D) - Eb (D string) - E natural(D string) | F(D string)...
or other (so many ) variations...

 

[Bob_Ross]

What is it that I'm missing?

The myriad of other possibilities.

To wit:

But at 4/4, lets say I'm on C on the 5th fret/G string on beat 1 and I want to go down to F, so starting at C 5th fret/beat one, Cb 4th/beat 2, ...

Recognize that you've already made a decision right there. It's not the only decision you could have made; it's simply one of the possibilities. At every note choice there are decisions that will dictate what every subsequent note choice can be, but the options still remain near-infinite even if you're trying to play chord tones on all the strong beats.
E.g.,
- C Cb Bb A | F
- C Bb A G | F
- C Bb G Gb | F
- C D E F# | F
- C Ab G Gb | F
- C C Bb E | F
- C C# G B | F
- C E G Gb | F
- C A E Bb | F
etc.

Depending on the context -- what the motifs and materials of the particular song you're playing are, how the overall shape of your line is directed, what you're (all, everyone in the ensemble) trying to achieve in terms of mood and texture -- any one of those options could work just as well as the others.

It's a big world out there.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

...... either way in this case I have to jump to F as the only next choice for beat 1 of F7 Chord ....... What is it that I'm missing?

The book is making it complicated, by insisting the passing note be one half step. You know you have to work with a Cm7 chord and the next one is a F7 chord. Problem is how to get to the F root using a passing note. We can use a passing note, a walking note or a chromatic run. Your book is talking about passing notes, it'll probably get around to walking and running later on in the book. But right now it's focused on passing notes and giving you a way to use passing notes.

What I live by; Cm7 - F7 in 4/4 time.
Three notes of Cm7 (R-b3-5) then the 4th note (R-b3-5-X) and X being one half step above or below the F7 root. OK, while doing the Cm7 look, target, the F note, then miss it by one FRET, up or down, which ever -- that note you missed the F by is your passing note. Notice I kinda left out what note that would happen on, I just walked the necessary fret (1/2 note) I missed F by and then landed on that F dead on the chord change.

Think of it this way; I've identified the Cm7 chord with the C root note the b3 lets it be minor, the 5 occupies a beat - that's enough - so I now turn my attention to the passing note that will take me to the F root. I elected to do this with one fret above or below the F root. ​

If Cm7 is active over two measures on the second measure - sound the C root then --- look for the F root, but miss it by three frets --- then walk chromatically to it, one fret per beat.

The walk can be one, two or three beats. Country will use the three beat walk to alert the guys that a change is coming and then by landing on the next root they know what the next chord is.

The problem is you are on Cm7 and need to get to F7. As mentioned, all kinds of ways to use passing notes, or walking notes, or chromatic runs.

I tend to make this decision easy by using chromatic fills of one, two or three approach notes.

 

[GastonD]

But the whole point of Willis' book is that you do NOT seek to start each chord on the root, but rather on the next available chord tone. So, depending on whether you are inserting passing tones only on the fourth beat, or on the second AND fourth, your choices would probably be E in the former (descending C-Bb-G-Gb, i.e. Root-7th-5th-passing), so you arrive on the F on the first beat of the following measure.
In the latter case (passing on 2nd and 4th beats) you'd descend as C-Cb-Bb-Ab and then go back ASCENDING to A (3rd of F7).
The book is, admittedly, somewhat confusing at times, but still one of my favorite ones ever. With each new reading things seem to get clearer for me.

 

[Rev J]

I just started working through this again on the 6 string. Last time I worked with it was when I had just started with the 5 back in '97. I was just going to give the advice the above poster did.

C/S,
Rev J

 

[saresu.bass]

I think I got the point, passing tones are just one of many choices. Also the ear can tell when the notes feel bad or not over the chords played for example on the piano...

Thank you much for the input y'all.

 

[Rev J]

That and giving a feeling of tension and resolution.

C/S,
Rev J

 

[Whousedtoplay]

That and giving a feeling of tension and resolution.

C/S,
Rev J

What would be your opinion about the following "walking" bass note selection for that Cm7 | F7 chord progression?

Cm7 = C - B - C - C#/Db
F7 = C - B - C - C#/Db

 

[Rev J]

Both want to resolve to the Eb which is the 3rd of Cm7 and the 7th of F7. Of course if you want to get a little more advanced you can go to D which depending on your perspective is either playing the 13th against the F7 or implying a iii-7b9 substitution of the V7 (F7) and the 9th against the Cmin7 or imply a D13sus4.

C/S,
Rev J

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I've had some leisure time, plus the previous exercise was too short; therefore, I've decided to extend the bass-line for the Cm7 | F7 chord progression.
N.B. It's only my amateur attempt to learn about passing notes from Gary Willis' book. It's an exercise only with some open strings and does not have ANY musical qualities.

Here is a Guitar Pro 6 sound clip of that bass-line with some "cheesy" drums and piano.
https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...2/?temp_hash=61d37afeea0359adbac9bdd26303277a

 

[Jloch86]

I would go descending from C,B,Bb,Gb,F

 

[Mdrummey]

I haven't checked out/didn't know about this book. Looks pretty sweet!

One of Willis' techniques is what he calls a "strong beat/weak beat" philosophy. He explains this in an older lesson video. There's also some sweet tribal tech jams in the same video.

Anyway, he breaks it down on landing on the root or chord tones on the 1&3. This allows you some wiggle room with what happens in between. He demonstrates this by expertly playing a somewhat "out" walking bass line over a set of changes. It works out because of his command over the groove and rhythm.

It kind of depends on your ear. Also depends on what kind of music you're playing. Maybe even depends on your bandmates level of trust with you. For example you could think of your chord tones at target notes and the rest of the notes just kind of outlining those targets. From what I understand, this is kind of a bebop approach. With this in mind, you could outline chord tones in some weird chromatic ways and it will all work out.

I found it helpful to counting out loud to four while playing and putting a strong emphasis on 1&3. I've learned a lot from that one lesson DVD. You can definitely find it on YouTube.

This is one of the reasons some guys seem like they can just play any damn note and it sounds amazing. For a really extreme example of this I'd listen to Chick Corea soloing over any standard.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Anyway, he breaks it down on landing on the root or chord tones on the 1&3. This allows you some wiggle room with what happens in between. He demonstrates this by expertly playing a somewhat "out" walking bass line over a set of changes. It works out because of his command over the groove and rhythm.

For the beginner bass players, I would recommend Ed Friedland's, "Building Walking Bass Lines".

For more experienced bass players, I would recommend Ed Fuqua's, "Walking Basics" and Mike Downes, "The Jazz Bass Line Book."

P.S. If Downes first name was Ed, we would have a Triple E - "trifecta"- effect of three superb books on walking basslines.

 

[GastonD]

Hm, for the large portion of the first section in the book, Willis advises you to stay within the first 5-fret area and move as far as you can in one direction (ascending or descending) before changing directions.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Hm, for the large portion of the first section in the book, Willis advises you to stay within the first 5-fret area and move as far as you can in one direction (ascending or descending) before changing directions.

"There's no money above the fifth fret."

 

[Rev J]

Another thing that has helped me in working through this again is having a looper and looping the chords that I'm playing against to hear how the fit with the exercises.

C/S,
Rev J