Newbie Question: Why is the bass tuned E-A-D-G?

[edgewise]

Hi All,

First off, I'm a beginning bassist so please be kind.

I started wondering why the bass is typically tuned in fourths.

I figured that this means that each string is tuned four notes apart.

My reasoning:

A four string is typically tuned to E-A-D-G.
You can count four notes between the E and the A and the A and D and the D and G. Hence the fourths.

This coincides nicely with the fact that humans have four fingers.

I noticed that if I was in the first position, the first string allows me to play E, F, F#, G, G#. This requires no shifting at all. To move from G# to an A, I only need to play the open second string. Following this approach, with four fingers I can play a full octave of notes with no shifting. This seems very elegant.

But once I move into the second position, this all falls apart. With my first finger on the 5th fret (an A), I can play A, A#, B, C. But I no longer have my open string to play the following note (C#). So I either have to shift one fret up the neck on the first string or one fret down the neck on the second string.

So looking at the fretboard, I realized that if we tuned in thirds we could play all notes with just four fingers in all positions. This evil beast would look something like this:

E G# C E
F A C# F
F# A# D F#
G B D# G
G# C E G#
A C# F A
A# D F# A#
B D# G B
C E G# C

Now I can play a chromatic scale without shifting regardless of what position I am in.

I hope this doesn't stupid. What am I missing here? Why is the bass commonly tuned the way it is? Why not thirds? I defer to the talkbass community.

Regards,

EW

 

[beggar98]

Its a good question, and one that there isn't a very good answer for. I remember an interview with Robert Fripp, guitar player for King Crimson. He was talking about how he developed his own tuning, and about how the standard guitar tuning of EADGBE is so pointless. He guessed that what became known as standard was probably just what they could get out of cat-gut strings centuries ago. Your tuning sounds interesting, and if it works for you you should run with it.

 

[hyp.spec]

i'm no expert, but I think it just has to do with tradition...

 

[saxnbass]

Traditionally, strings are tuned in fifths. GDAE and CGDA. This is violin and cello. If you tune like that, it would be very hard to play bass (upright) with it's big scale length. So I guess they decided to tune it in fourths, EADG, instead.

 

[DocBop]

Most string instruments are tuned in fifths C-G-D-A, but the string bass is tuned in fourths and speculation is that it was done on double bass to reduce the stretches to reach notes. Sometime classical player with tune in fifths. The electric bass inherited the double basses tuning in fourths since it was meant to be a portable solution to double bass and also have more volume and with addition of frets more accurate pitch. Today basses player are experimenting with lots of different tunings for various reasons. Learn standard tuning first inside-out then experiment with tunings if you want.

 

[Matthew Bryson]

What am I missing here? Why is the bass commonly tuned the way it is? Why not thirds? I defer to the talkbass community.

Regards,

EW

You are mistaken about what "tuned in fourths" means. Your explanation is interesting, but incorrect.

In a C major scale: C=1, D=2, E=3, F=4, G=5, A=6, B=7

That is why F is said to be the fourth of C

Based on the above reasoning, A is the fourth of E, D is the fourth of A, G is the fourth of D.

That is why they say a bass is tuned in fourths. It has nothing to do with the number if steps between the notes. That theory will fall apart when applied to an instrument that is tuned in fifths.

Being tuned in fourths also creates fifths when going down the strings rather than up.

So if your playing a C at the third fret of your A string, you can play one string up (toward your feet) at the same fret and you'll be playing the fourth.(F on the D string) You can play one string down from the C (G on the E string) and you're playing the fifth.

These things are very usefull in playing music - IMO much more usefull than being able to play a chromatic scale in any position.

Also, the tuning you are suggesting would reduce your over all range.

Why four strings and 20 frets on the original Fender? That gives you all 12 notes in exactly 3 octaves - no more, no less.


Another good reason for the way a bass is tuned - to match the guitar!

 

[stedtale]

the EB matches the tuning of the UB, and if that was tuned in anything more than 4ths you'd need big hands

 

[stedtale]

the EB matches the tuning of the UB, and if that was tuned in anything more than 4ths you'd need big hands

hmmm, just found Invalid Link Removed

interesting. The bass guitar, is not really, in my mind, supposed to be a bass "guitar", but an electric version of a double bass, or a hybrid of the two. So, to me, it would seem, that electric bass tuning would come from the double bass side of things.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

hmmm, just found Invalid Link Removed

interesting. The bass guitar, is not really, in my mind, supposed to be a bass "guitar", but an electric version of a double bass, or a hybrid of the two. So, to me, it would seem, that electric bass tuning would come from the double bass side of things.

No offense, but regardless of what may be in your mind, a bass guitar is what it is and always has been. It's the bass member of the guitar family, the same way you have bass trombones, bass clarinets, bass viols, bass flutes, and bass mandolins (mandobasses). The fact that a bass guitar is tuned the same way as a bass viol doesn't make it a version of the latter. A mandobass is tuned that way too, and AFAIK no one has ever tried to argue that a mandobass is a version of a bass viol. Rather, people conclude (that is, if they think of it at all) that the mandobass is the bass member of the mandolin family. Exactly as the bass guitar is the bass member of the guitar family.

 

[ibnzneksrul]

hmmm, just found Invalid Link Removed

interesting. The bass guitar, is not really, in my mind, supposed to be a bass "guitar", but an electric version of a double bass, or a hybrid of the two. So, to me, it would seem, that electric bass tuning would come from the double bass side of things.

Interesting clips.

I think 'Electric Bass' is a more accurate term than 'Bass Guitar'

 

[Richard Lindsey]

Interesting clips.

I think 'Electric Bass' is a more accurate term than 'Bass Guitar'

It's an electric bass guitar. Something like a Tacoma Thunderchief is an acoustic bass guitar. Perfectly logical, and perfectly correct.

 

[202dy]

The bass guitar performs a function similar to the upright. However, it is a guitar.

Tuning on the upright bass over the years has varied as well as the number of strings on the instrument. Some of the early instruments had only two strings. IIRC, three strings was pretty normal and they commonly had as many as seven. Scale lengths were all over the map, too. There were some instruments that were so tall that one player would bow while a second player fingered the notes. Tunings, early on, were whatever the player wanted them to be. It's only been in the last hundred or hundred and fifty years that the EADG tuning has become accepted as standard tuning. That said, there is not a reason in the world that says that you must tune your bass this way. But you'll have to do all the math on your own. Virtually all of the manuals, lesson books, etc. are all written around the EADG tuning.

 

[johnvice]

Wow, this is a great question!

I have been playing bass for 26 years and I don’t question enough things. Learning music is a very iterative process. There is no real beginning as everything relates to everything else. You have to just go with the answer “because that’s the way it is” for a lot of things. That’s fine to start off but nothing is carved in stone. One should always be questioning better / innovative ways to approach our music.

I also play Chapman Stick whose bass strings are tuned in descending 5ths (C-G-D-A-E). This takes getting use to from the ascending fourths on a bass (E-A-D-G) but it opened my eyes to new possibilities.

 

[koricancowboy]

No offense, but regardless of what may be in your mind, a bass guitar is what it is and always has been. It's the bass member of the guitar family, the same way you have bass trombones, bass clarinets, bass viols, bass flutes, and bass mandolins (mandobasses). The fact that a bass guitar is tuned the same way as a bass viol doesn't make it a version of the latter. A mandobass is tuned that way too, and AFAIK no one has ever tried to argue that a mandobass is a version of a bass viol. Rather, people conclude (that is, if they think of it at all) that the mandobass is the bass member of the mandolin family. Exactly as the bass guitar is the bass member of the guitar family.

Though it may be a member of the guitar family, the bass guitar was made so that guitar players could get gigs. Because playing Double Bass compitently (sp?) is not exactly an overnight process, the bass guitar was made. This was scaled closer to a guitar and had frets added to it, hence precision bass.

the EB matches the tuning of the UB, and if that was tuned in anything more than 4ths you'd need big hands

It would be actually a bit easier to play if tuned in fifths. Think about the harmonic role of the instrument. Most music uses the bass to play the root or the fifth. Now in the lowest positions of the DB, it can be quite a bear to play the low F and C fifth. But in fifths tuning it is stacked right on top of each other instead of two semitones away from each other. Two semitones or half steps may not seem to big but considering most DBs have scale lengths between 41.5 to 44 inches or larger it begins to be a hassle.

The reason I was given by many teachers hs to do with the origin of the instrument. It is more closely related to a or bass viol than a violin. Upon the development of the bass the largest string instrument was the bass viol, which was tuned in fourths. So in order to find someone to play it, it was tuned in fourths so bass violists could play it.

The shape of the Electric bass is about all thats in common with guitar IMHO. I don't play EB but still feel I have more in common with it than guitar.

A smal disclaimer, the theories behind why the bass is tuned as such are numerous. Because I am alive now and not then. I cannot corroborate the validity of any statement about it. But if you really want to research theres a lot out there. Probably more in the DB than EB side of research.

Cheers,
Oz

 

[seanm]

Does it really matter if the electric bass guitar is based on the double bass or the electric guitar? The electric bass fills a niche (albeit a large one) for a loud bass instrument to use in a band setting.

But tunning it EADG DB players *and* electric guitar players are comfortable. Instant market of people who can play the bass!

Of all the decisions that had to be made to get the first commercial basses ready for market, the tuning was probably the easiest. This thread has probably put way more thought into it than Leo did

 

[edgewise]

I really appreciate the response!

I have a tendency to over analyze things, so I'm glad to see my question wasn't totally absurd.

Since I am only a beginner, I'll stick with the standard tuning and learn it inside and out.

Thanks again!

-EW

 

[Oscar Stern]

No offense, but regardless of what may be in your mind, a bass guitar is what it is and always has been. It's the bass member of the guitar family, the same way you have bass trombones, bass clarinets, bass viols, bass flutes, and bass mandolins (mandobasses). The fact that a bass guitar is tuned the same way as a bass viol doesn't make it a version of the latter. A mandobass is tuned that way too, and AFAIK no one has ever tried to argue that a mandobass is a version of a bass viol. Rather, people conclude (that is, if they think of it at all) that the mandobass is the bass member of the mandolin family. Exactly as the bass guitar is the bass member of the guitar family.

Mandobass can be seen as an enormous Acoustic Bass in the shape of a Mandolin.

 

[Not Insane]

No offense, but regardless of what may be in your mind, a bass guitar is what it is and always has been. It's the bass member of the guitar family, the same way you have bass trombones, bass clarinets, bass viols, bass flutes, and bass mandolins (mandobasses). The fact that a bass guitar is tuned the same way as a bass viol doesn't make it a version of the latter. A mandobass is tuned that way too, and AFAIK no one has ever tried to argue that a mandobass is a version of a bass viol. Rather, people conclude (that is, if they think of it at all) that the mandobass is the bass member of the mandolin family. Exactly as the bass guitar is the bass member of the guitar family.

Though I agree with your post, I just see it as a label. I call it a bass because it has less syllables than "bass guitar". And if someone else calls it a bass guitar, I'm fine with that. The only time I get wrapped around the axle regarding labels is when they are necessary to avoid confusion. I personally see them as "bass" and "double bass". But perhaps others see them as "bass" and "bass guitar".

 

[Oscar Stern]

No offense, but regardless of what may be in your mind, a bass guitar is what it is and always has been. It's the bass member of the guitar family, the same way you have bass trombones, bass clarinets, bass viols, bass flutes, and bass mandolins (mandobasses). The fact that a bass guitar is tuned the same way as a bass viol doesn't make it a version of the latter. A mandobass is tuned that way too, and AFAIK no one has ever tried to argue that a mandobass is a version of a bass viol. Rather, people conclude (that is, if they think of it at all) that the mandobass is the bass member of the mandolin family. Exactly as the bass guitar is the bass member of the guitar family.

The Bass Guitar inherited the Bass Viol's Tuning because actually it was historically made as a travel sized version of the latter.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

The Bass Guitar inherited the Bass Viol's Tuning because actually it was historically made as a travel sized version of the latter.

Really, 18 years after the last post?

Anyway, I don't think it's accurate to say it's a version of a bass viol. Rather, it's the corresponding member of a different instrument family that serves a similar function. If it were merely a travel-sized version of the bass viol, it would be played upright, using bass viol technique, and would never have had frets.