Newbie Recording questions: EQ

[tothemax]

I've got a Tascam 16x08 interface and when I go direct from my bass I get a decent signal but not a good tone. Even with my tone control pegged it's still pretty dull sounding. It's a P bass and I use a small foam pad under the strings by the bridge, gives it a great tone from my amp. I would think that the preamps on the Tascam are decent enough to provide a good signal. Is adding EQ inline the answer, if so would I want to go virtual on the DAW or use a pedal between my bass and interface?
I'm using Cakewalk on WIN10 with 32GB, it's frustrating not getting a decent bass sound. It's my understanding you always want a good sound going in.

 

[DirkP]

You're using input 9 or 10 switched instrument, correct?
Both is possible: using outboard gear pre interface (Outside the Box OTB) or doing it with plugins in the DAW (ITB). Even among professionels there are followers of both options.
If you do it ITB and feel the need to monitor your playing with the eq or amp-plugin etc. activated, you can get into latency issues: the sound reaches your ears with a noticeable delay. If you can live with monitoring the dry sound, latency doesn't matter. Cause most DAWs come with a lot of plug-ins, simpl try some of them.
Me, personal, I always use a mic preamp and at least a rack compressor like an 1176 or/and a LA2 before the DAW, sometimes a bit of EQ. This is exactly the sound I'm after. I'm not into amp sounds at all, just into classic recording chains. But others get convincing results ITB.
If I(!) had to choose between budget pedals or going ITB, I would go ITB.

 

[pfschim]

outboard EQ and/or a Cab Sim pedal can be very helpful with betting a better recorded tone. DirkP already said there are many ways to shape your tone inside the DAW using plugins. But keep in mind, "better" is in the ear of the beholder.

it can be a shock to hear your bass tone "naked" ... just the bass into the interface, but it can also be a tool to help you work on your technique too.

FWIW, my signal chain is a Cali76CB comp (modelled after the 1176) Noble DI and usually a NUX MiniStudio cab sim. This is my usual starting point for tracking unless the engineer or producer asks for something else ... or nothing else ... just my bass clean into the interface so they can mess with it later as they see fit.

good luck. lots of good and pretty easy ways to shape your recorded tone.

 

[tothemax]

Really appreciate the feedback.
The raw sound is not "awful" just very low and dull sounding and difficult to hear in my headphones when playing along with the mix. I have a 10 band MXR EQ that might be the ticket [OTB]. I did try one the built virtual amp sims and the latency was prevalent, it would be hard to record with. It's a never ending learning curve...

 

[pfschim]

yep, never ending. So many possible things to tweak or add (as long as your ca$h hold out), but if you get a tone your comfortable with you can just hang out there for a while.

At first I mostly used the inbox tools, VST/plugins, but I ended up with the outboard stuff because I liked the tone I got better than the virtual stuff I tried. You can definitely end up spending hours and hours working with the virtual tools there are so many available. It's a fun way to spend time though.

good luck!

 

[Basslice]

Hi. You are playing with a mute. That is ok, but won't help in terms of brightness. I would advise new strings, and making sure your pickup height is right. Also check that you have a good signal level. I always aim for as good of a clean tone as possible from the bass direct before mucking around with EQ. You can't always EQ your way out of a problem.

 

[tothemax]

Sounds good... hope to get some time to play around a bit this weekend with the DAW. My bass has stock Pup's - it's a Fender MIM 50's reissue, it's always been a bit on the boomy side which is why I added the foam.

 

[DirkP]

outboard EQ and/or a Cab Sim pedal can be very helpful with betting a better recorded tone. DirkP already said there are many ways to shape your tone inside the DAW using plugins. But keep in mind, "better" is in the ear of the beholder.

it can be a shock to hear your bass tone "naked" ... just the bass into the interface, but it can also be a tool to help you work on your technique too.

FWIW, my signal chain is a Cali76CB comp (modelled after the 1176) Noble DI and usually a NUX MiniStudio cab sim. This is my usual starting point for tracking unless the engineer or producer asks for something else ... or nothing else ... just my bass clean into the interface so they can mess with it later as they see fit.

good luck. lots of good and pretty easy ways to shape your recorded tone.

I use the Cali76 too. Great pedal.

it can be a shock to hear your bass tone "naked" ... just the bass into the interface, but it can also be a tool to help you work on your technique too.

Here I have to disagree - but as mentioned before it depends on the sound you're after. If I plug my favourite Jazz Bass with flatwound strings into my interface "naked", it is 90% of the sound I'm after. It's pure magic.
Otherwise I'm kind of an effects addict. But more into Eventide and Moog stuff. Amps or distortion pedals never interested me. Amps are just a necessary evil to play live. For me. I prefer a tube mic-preamp like a UA610 everytime.
Depends simply a lot on the music style you're into.

 

[pfschim]

I use the Cali76 too. Great pedal.



Here I have to disagree - but as mentioned before it depends on the sound you're after. If I plug my favourite Jazz Bass with flatwound strings into my interface "naked", it is 90% of the sound I'm after. It's pure magic.
Otherwise I'm kind of an effects addict. But more into Eventide and Moog stuff. Amps or distortion pedals never interested me. Amps are just a necessary evil to play live. For me. I prefer a tube mic-preamp like a UA610 everytime.
Depends simply a lot on the music style you're into.

we all hear it differently. if you are 90% there with your signal right into the interface, great for you!
I really prefer the sound of my full signal chain (which is really not super processed) through an amp and speakers. When I hear my basses straight into the interface, they just do not sound like that at all.

And as I mentioned above, sometimes an engineer, songwriter or producer will ask for just a totally clean, straight into the interface, type bass tone .. and of course that's what they get.

 

[C Stone]

Buy an SM57 to mic your amp and record a direct signal as well.
Problem solved...

 

[DirkP]

we all hear it differently. if you are 90% there with your signal right into the interface, great for you!
I really prefer the sound of my full signal chain (which is really not super processed) through an amp and speakers. When I hear my basses straight into the interface, they just do not sound like that at all.

And as I mentioned above, sometimes an engineer, songwriter or producer will ask for just a totally clean, straight into the interface, type bass tone .. and of course that's what they get.

But what does "straight into the interface" means? With headphones? Or nearfield-monitors?
I have a small Markbass combo and a Markbass with an Ampeg portaflex speaker at my home studio. Love the sound of the Ampeg speaker. But 90% of the times I listen through nearfield monitors in my treated room going into an interface after a Universal Audio tube mic preamp and one or two comps (1176 and LA2A clones). It just sounds like on the records I love when I use this chain.

 

[pfschim]

But what does "straight into the interface" means? With headphones? Or nearfield-monitors?
I have a small Markbass combo and a Markbass with an Ampeg portaflex speaker at my home studio. Love the sound of the Ampeg speaker. But 90% of the times I listen through nearfield monitors in my treated room going into an interface after a Universal Audio tube mic preamp and one or two comps (1176 and LA2A clones). It just sounds like on the records I love when I use this chain.

I was only referring to the input side, and specifically with local (not DAW) monitoring where you are really just hearing your bass signal at the input. I was not referring to the output (headphones, nearfields etc) because of course that will also have an impact on how you hear it .... and IMO/IME very few rooms or equipment setups are completely flat, they all impart some kind of color.

Your example of your bass into a UA tube pre and 1 or even 2 very high quality comps into your interface all in a professionally treated room through nearfields would not be considered by most to be uncolored at all. The 1176 and LA2A alone are both thought of as adding quite a bit of color to the signal, and your UA tube pre adds another layer of tone influence. But again, if you love the sound then you should be very happy. Sounds like you have some very good gear to work with

Remember, the OP was not talking about such high quality add-ons or treated rooms, just the bass into the interface and I agreed that can be very shocking to many when they first hear it ... particularly if the primary experience is with an amp which is a whole other level of coloration.

 

[tothemax]

Great stuff, really appreciate the clarification.

 

[dave_bass5]

What i do is to use an amp/cab sim in my DAW on the input, for monitoring only most of the time. You need to disable direct motioning if you have it on, so you only here the effected sound. This doesnt get recorded so you are still free to do what you want with the bass tone afterwards, but for me having a good tone when I’m playing makes me play better. Most of the time ill just make a few tweaks once its in the mix.

 

[JRA]

It's my understanding you always want a good sound going in

i think it's important that you'd get a good sound "going out." what it takes to make that happen can vary, but the signal "going in" should accommodate the process --- even if that signal doesn't sound like the final result. lots of beginners make the mistake of trying to make all incoming signals sound like the final, mixed track before they have all of the tracks assembled, thus: allowing for no real mixing --- and possibly just creating messes.

most pros want a signal that can be 'manipulated' to better serve the mixing/mastering objective (e.g., the tune). just because my bass sounds "lifeless" 'going in' doesn't mean that it will sound dull in the final mix (after EQ and processing). experience is your friend! good luck!

 

[LBS-bass]

i think it's important that you'd get a good sound "going out." what it takes to make that happen can vary, but the signal "going in" should accommodate the process --- even if that signal doesn't sound like the final result. lots of beginners make the mistake of trying to make all incoming signals sound like the final, mixed track before they have all of the tracks assembled, thus: allowing for no real mixing --- and possibly just creating messes.

most pros want a signal that can be 'manipulated' to better serve the mixing/mastering objective (e.g., the tune). just because my bass sounds "lifeless" 'going in' doesn't mean that it will sound dull in the final mix (after EQ and processing). experience is your friend! good luck!

I prefer this approach, in general, because I like having the option to add amp and cab simulations after the fact and see how I can fatten or otherwise color the tone. But I've been playing direct in for a long time so the actual sound of my bass does not surprise me nor do I find it displeasing.

Lately for the sake of expedience I am recording with a direct balanced output from my head to my interface. Gives me a little fatness from the start but still a relatively clean signal that I can further enhance. I'm not crazy about most of the amp/cab simulations I've worked with so far in Logic so that's part of the reason I am choosing to do it this way; the other part is that it's a signal I don't really have to mess with all that much. Mixed down bass isn't really a standout sound. I worry more about other instruments.

 

[Marc Bobro]

As others have said, at minimum you should record bass guitar with a balanced DI either from a bass DI pedal, a preamp, or an amp. This will give you a strong signal (with low signal to noise ratio) even with pads under your strings. Other things being equal, recording direct to an audio interface is never as good. (Mic'ing your speaker is an optional way to go, but harder to do at home.) Personally, I also use pedals in the signal chain to the amp, such as overdrive, delay, and flanger. I like to commit to a sound, otherwise you can get caught up forever messing around in your DAW. So the only thing I tweak in my DAW is the EQ, at least for bass. Good luck!

 

[tothemax]

Really appreciate the feedback on this. I was looking through my pedal box last week and realized that an old bandmate gave this to me and I've never even tried it, might be just the ticket. Markbass Super Pro DI.

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Haven't been doing much recording lately been dragging a bit with my spring "Honey-Do" list. I'll definitely give it a try and see how it goes. It would be cool if works out. Thanks...

 

[Marc Bobro]

Cool. That DI should work, even though it was specifically designed for active bass. Is the bass you want to record with active? Oh wait, you said P bass, so I assume that it's passive... Still, may as well try it out.

 

[tothemax]

Cool. That DI should work, even though it was specifically designed for active bass. Is the bass you want to record with active? Oh wait, you said P bass, so I assume that it's passive... Still, may as well try it out.

It's been in my junk box for at least a year or two now... never tried it. I was looking at some GFS Red Active PU's - but passed with the thought of adding a battery compartment. I'm not overly impressed by the stock Fender PU's that came with my P-Bass, more a dull "thud" tone, not much punch. It had such a great look I couldn't pass on it. It was MF special deal and the price was good. Since it works, I haven't looked to upgrade it yet. Not sure exactly what I'd upgrade to.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/fender-standard-telecaster-precision-bass-limited-edition​