Double Bass Newly developed microphone for Double-bass - Remic D5400LB

[Anton Johannes]

Hello,

I have received a pair of Remic microphones for review. I will post my results at: http://bassolution.blogspot.dk/

The link is to a blog I started writing in september this year.

I welcome comments about the products
or specifics You would like me to check out.

Cheers,
Johs

 

[shwashwa]

i would think that over time, if that mic provides any kind of pressure, you could easily pop the fingerboard right off the bass. you have a lot of leverage at that end, and if the fingerboard was put on right, it was put on so that it could be taken off in the future when needed.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Pressure? It's just camera foam.

 

[shwashwa]

Pressure? It's just camera foam.

ok, i couldnt tell from the picture. it looked like it would need significant downward pressure to make contact with the bass and so that it wont fall off. if its just resting in there gently thats good.

 

[Anton Johannes]

There are more photos at http://bassolution.blogspot.dk/

It is basically an omni mic placed very close to the top in a spot that is resonant. Torkild who developed the mic suggests, that I also make tests with the mic placed under the string holder.

The mic is very light-weight, and the foam does not apply pressure, that could harm the bass.

- Johs

 

[MrSidecar]

MutherMaryN'Jozuff, $1100. That's quite a lot of bread. It better be really good. I'd love to hear the review. Especially- how well does it work with an amp? Preamp needed? Phantom power?

But frankly, for that price, it HAS to sound like my bass, only 10 times better. AND louder.

Best
Sidecar

 

[Josh Ginsburg]

I've been eying this mic as well - I would hope there is more to it than just an omni in foam. In my experience that does not isolate low frequencies well. I look forward to seeing your results...

 

[Nathan Levine]

Very interested as well. I wrote Thorkild and he described the two different mics in this way.

"The studio model D5400 (RED series) can also be used for some live productions as well. like small club jobs or large symphony setups where the sound pressure is not too loud.

The RED series has a well defined balance between the fundamentals and the overtone register of the instrument and has a more "open and airy feel" of the sound than the GREEN model.

The V5200LB (GREEN) are the live model. (designed for loud sessions)
The GREEN model has a more "dry and dark or woodish" tone than the RED model.

This is due to the fact that we found that the instrument acts differently in a "heavy" amplified live situation than in a studio, with no loud static sound pressure level, and also the fact that you often needs a lot more isolation to other instruments in live context and you dont want the reflections from the room, the PA and stage monitors, to be "re-amplified".

 

[Anton Johannes]

I will not attempt to explain the technicalities of these mic's in detail...

Here is a few facts that Thorkild mentioned:
The LB model also picks up sound directly from the top of the bass through a sound canal that is directed at the back of the membrane... The mic's use a very thin diaphragm material... He also explained why cardioid mic's are not a good idea, because the polar pattern is reflected on the surface of the instrument, which creates high feedback sensitivity in certain directions. This is very problematic if the instrument is moved around.

I will record two mp3's today. One with each mic at the same levels.

Nice if you'll reply with suggestions for additional testing.

- Johs

 

[Vunz]

subscribed!

I use a Schoeps CMC6 with a hypercardioid capsule, which only is slightly more expensive than this Remic. I'm curious to find out if it performs as well, or even better, than my Schoeps (I'm a bit sceptical, though...).

Cheers,
Vincent

 

[Anton Johannes]

Hello,

I have uploaded my two "First-take" recordings with the Remic for bass. I also recorded a direct-out from my Schertler Stat-B. This is a bridge-mounted pick-up, which works well for me. To make the Stat-B signal resemble a mic when I play live, I will usually add a bit of short reverb and a High-pass filter. For this I use an Acoustic Image Head.

On the recordings I am talking while playing. I mixed up the two mic's, so on the first recording I am mistakenly presenting the LB/live version. I notice my mistake as soon as I prepare the second recording, since the second mic has a much louder output and does not pick up my voice as clearly. I lowered the mic input for the second recording.

On my bass the 4500LB definitely needs a High-pass filter, since it exaggerates low-end thump... Otherwise I feel this test has shown promising results. The 4500 sounds very nice and the 4500LB suppresses the noise from the surroundings nicely.

I promised Thorkild to record the mic's when placed under the string-holder as well, so this will be coming up next. Nice if this forum has suggestions for further testing or if you will share stories about the mic that works well for You.

- Johs

 

[MrSidecar]

Well, thank you Johs!

The 4500LB does nothing for me, as it sounds rather artificial, with a sort of plastic-y attack. The whole thing to me doesn't sound much like a mic at all. I wouldn't want to try that one, as it IMHO is no improvement on my amplified signal (Ehrlund EAP), certainly not an improvement that's worth $1100.

But the 4500- nice. Very accurate and mic-like. Would be interesting to hear it in a group setting- drummer and some horns, maybe.

Best
Sidecar

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Well, thank you Johs!

The 4500LB does nothing for me, as it sounds rather artificial, with a sort of plastic-y attack. The whole thing to me doesn't sound much like a mic at all. I wouldn't want to try that one, as it IMHO is no improvement on my amplified signal (Ehrlund EAP), certainly not an improvement that's worth $1100.

But the 4500- nice. Very accurate and mic-like. Would be interesting to hear it in a group setting- drummer and some horns, maybe.

Best
Sidecar

Agree completely. That first one sounds really nice!

Thanks for posting these.

 

[Vunz]

The first one sounds nice, but not as nice as my Schoeps (although it is rather difficult to compare, since obviously the bass and player are different). My Schoeps has a fullness that the first sample lacks, but this might be an advantage in a live setting, as it might be less prone to feedback. The 5400 LB sounds rather awful, if I may be so blunt. I fully agree with Sidecar that the Ehrlund EAP (which I also own) sounds far better, and probably is less cumbersome to use in a live setting than the Remic.

It is interesting to hear the Stat samples. I always thought that these Schertlers would sound far superior to a piezo, but these samples kinda refuted that assertion. Very artificial, and not nicer, in whichever sense of the word, than a typical piezo. So, a very revealing test. Many thanks for this, Johannes!

Cheers,
Vincent

 

[Anton Johannes]

I did not enjoy the 5400 LB. But I remember Thorkild mentioning that placing the mic under the bridge holder would be less boomy, so I look forward to trying this out...

The Stat-B does sound awful when recorded in this manner. However....! It is the only pick-up I have tried that has an attack, balance and fatness that resembles my acoustic sound. The pick-up signal does need quite a bit of processing though... I might make a soundclip for you where the pick-up is presented more favorably

- Johs

 

[Nathan Levine]

Johs, Thanks for demoing these mics for us! I really like the 5400 and am very interested to hear it placed under the tailpiece. Will you take a picture of the setup once you have it in place? Thorkild told me that cutting the foam to fit under the tailpiece would be necessary and no problem. Sounds like he likes the placement under the tailpiece so much that the next generation of these mics will be designed for placement there.

 

[drurb]

Very interested as well. I wrote Thorkild and he described the two different mics in this way.

"The studio model D5400 (RED series) can also be used for some live productions as well. like small club jobs or large symphony setups where the sound pressure is not too loud.

The RED series has a well defined balance between the fundamentals and the overtone register of the instrument and has a more "open and airy feel" of the sound than the GREEN model.

The V5200LB (GREEN) are the live model. (designed for loud sessions)
The GREEN model has a more "dry and dark or woodish" tone than the RED model.

This is due to the fact that we found that the instrument acts differently in a "heavy" amplified live situation than in a studio, with no loud static sound pressure level, and also the fact that you often needs a lot more isolation to other instruments in live context and you dont want the reflections from the room, the PA and stage monitors, to be "re-amplified".

Translation: The GREEN has a high-frequency roll-off relative to the RED. It would be far more transparent to simply show the response curves. The proof is in the hearing.

Well, thank you Johs!

The 4500LB does nothing for me, as it sounds rather artificial, with a sort of plastic-y attack. The whole thing to me doesn't sound much like a mic at all. I wouldn't want to try that one, as it IMHO is no improvement on my amplified signal (Ehrlund EAP), certainly not an improvement that's worth $1100.

But the 4500- nice. Very accurate and mic-like. Would be interesting to hear it in a group setting- drummer and some horns, maybe.

Best
Sidecar

Yup. The first one does sound nice although the mid-range is a bit "honky" in the pizz. examples. A change in position or a touch-up of the tone controls would likely fix that. Sounds pretty good, overall.

 

[Nathan Levine]

Just Ordered the Red Series D5400. Good news for non EU customers. Danish VAT doesn't apply. It brings the cost down to $880 shipped. I guess that's about half of the Schoeps if I am remembering correctly. Still pricier than the DPA, AMT and certainly the Troll. I'll make some recordings this winter break with the Troll, DPA and Remic and share them accordingly.

I plan to then have a post holiday sale of all extra gear I have accumulated in search of the sound. Yikes! There will be a few nice items available...

 

[Anton Johannes]

Hi Nathan,
I look forward to hearing your comparison of the three mic's. I checked out the Troll on the web and it sure got my attention!
I like the soundclips on their website. A lightweight ribbon-mic mounted under the bridge is an interesting idea.

Today Thorkild mentioned in an email, that they are developing a D5400L, which uses the technology of the D5400LB, but should sound more like the D5400.

In the meantime I will put some effort into getting the D5400LB to sound right next up is testing with a live sound system.

Cheers,
Johs

 

[Nathan Levine]

2 weeks later and the D5400 arrived. Got a chance to mess with it a bit before rehearsal last night. Initial impressions through a MAS 25 were very positive. The mic completely disappears under the fingerboard. On a break I turned it up for the two guitars players sitting next to me to hear. Astonishment ensued. "WHAT is that thing and how does it sound so good?" I wish I had better answers. I will do my best to rig up the Remic, DPA and Troll in a few weeks to record a few samples. Until then...