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NHL PLayoffs 2009

Comments on the goalie situation for each team?

I haven't watched any of the series after the quarter-finals. Both teams have high powered offense...and I think that the Pens are no joke depth wise....maybe not so much as the Wings...but it is still there. I think this series is may boil down to who the better goal tender is.
 
Burk - I use the 83 Oilers comparison because the Wings have hands down been the best in the league for years, not because they're aging, though I do see your point.

As I've said all along, these teams are the cream of the NHL, and they deserve to have a playing field which is level, not marred by poor officiating, non-healthy rosters, and back-to-back games.

While I understand the desire to not have a huge layover between the series, to move it up like the NHL did considering the Wings injury woes makes me less than happy, particularly with the back-to-back games to start it off. If the possibility hadn't been announced AFTER Datsyuk and Lidstrom missed game 4, I'd be a bit less annoyed about it.

That said, the Wings did a heck of a job last night against a determined Hawks team. Cristobal Huet played a great game to give his team a chance to extend the series, though his "miraculous" save on Franzen at the end of regulation was just a combination of desperation and luck, you've got to give the guy tons of credit for coming back the way he did after getting shelled in game 4. Darren Helm's PK shift in the 3rd was one of the best I've seen since Zetterberg's masterpiece killing the 5 on 3 in the finals last season.

As of last nights game, the Wings were missing six regulars: Nick Lidstrom (the best d-man of our generation, if not all time, sorry to the Bobby Orr fans); Pavel Datsyuk, defending Selke winner for best defensive forward, threee time defending Lady Byng winner, and current finalist for both trophies as well as the Hart; Andreas Lilja, their best pk d-man all season; Jonathan Ericsson, their stud rookie d-man; Kris Draper, former Selke winner and one of the best face-off men in the league; and Tomas Kopecky (to be honest though, that's a good thing imho, as Helm, Abdelkader, and Leino are all upgrades over him by a huge margin). If Datsyuk and Lidstrom and Ericsson can play effectively that's huge. IMHO, it's the difference in the series. The way Helm is playing, he's an upgrade over how Draper has been most of the season. Lilja is missed, though Ericsson offsets most of the loss, still I'd rather have Lilja than Lebda on the 3rd pairing. Yes, Lebda had an assist on Cleary's goal last night, but he totally blew his coverage on the Hawks goal. Yes, it was a beautiful shot, - and as much as I was ticked about it, it was a beauty - but with the speed Lebda has, no way Kane should have had the space to get it off. Lebda stopped skating. His celebration was a bit hokey too - way to get yourself to -6 for the series. Chelios's facial expression was priceless.

The Pens are on a huge roll and healthy, though I still question Gonchar's leg. While I'm sure the Pens are thrilled with the prospect of back-to-back game 1 and 2 against a depleted Wings roster, and will gladly take the cup if they get 4 wins against the depleted roster, it'd be an asterisked win in my book, particularly with the late bump up in the schedule. I just hope Devorski and Halloran, aren't the refs for the series, they're just horrible. Like in the *ucks series, I was glad that there weren't suspensions so the Ducks were full strength when the Wings eliminated them, a true hockey fan would want both teams healthy. Moving the series up with the back to back game 1 and 2 is a disservice to both teams and to all hockey fans - this series has the potential to be one of, if not the, best series of our generation if not all time - if both sides are healthy.

My predictions: If the Wings are healthy, it's going to be Wings in six or seven, but they'll be hard fought wars. If Datsyuk, Lidstrom and Ericsson are out, I think it'll be the Pens in six or seven. For those saying the healthy wings would steamroll the Pens, think again. As much of a Wings fan as I am, you've got to respect what the Pens bring to the table.

My lack of caffiene inspired preview:

Forwards: The Wings corps is deeper top to bottom with 2 way play and all four lines are legitimate threats to score. If they're healthy, Zetterberg and Datsyuk are a match to Crosby and Malkin with their better defensive play. The last change on home ice is going to be big in this series. Filppula is an unsung hero with his setup play, and Hossa is the wildcard. He's only shown up on the sheet in a big way in one game, but the effort is there. I've got a hunch that he cranks it up yet another notch in the finals. Cleary is stepping it up as well, and the Pens would do well to watch him closely. Malkin is my biggest worry on the Pens. If Lidstrom is healthy, that's who I put against Malkin and let Stuart/Kronwall hammer Crosby into submission. Not taking Crosby lightly, but Malkin has impressed me this postseason. He's definitely a Conn Smythe candidate. Maxime Talbot is the X-factor on the Pens offense to me. He's scored some timely goals (the tying goal in game 5 of last year's finals, the backbreaker in game 4 vs the Canes) Ex-*uck Kunitz might step up with a cheap shot but he's a warrior on the boards. If the Wings are missing Datsyuk, Zetterberg can't match up against both Crosby and Malkin, and if I'm Bylsma, I'm trying to take advantage of that as much as possible.

Defense: A healthy Wings corps is way better than the Pens blueliners. If Lidstrom and Ericsson are out, the advantage flips the other way. Kronwall/Stuart vs. Orpik for the big hits, forwards need to be watching for both. Hal Gill had the series of his life in last year's finals, he'll need to match that.

Goaltending: Ozzie is on a mission. He's sick of the disrespect and the comments over the regular season. He's been better than Fleury thus far. Slight edge to the Wings.

Coaching: Bylsma is doing a heck of a job, had he been hired earlier, he might have been a Jack Adams finalist. I saw his work with the S/W-B Pens first hand, and he's a good tactician. Babcock is phenomenal, and imho the best in the league, but how he juggles a depleted roster and handles the matchups is going to be a big key in this series. IMHO Bylsma is going to be one of the best coaches in the league for a while, but at this point, I've got to give the nod to Babcock.

This series, if both teams are healthy, is going to be a beauty. Word is Ericsson will be ready to play, and Lidstrom and Datsyuk both skated yesterday. If Babcock pulled them just to rest them for the final, he's pulling something close to Scotty Bowman crazy.
 
I'm not ready to conclude this Pittsburgh team is that much better than last years.

Pittsburgs stars will have to get use to opperating with a lot more company arround them and not as much ice for them to razzal-dazzle in.

Wow. Why should Pittsburgh even bother showing up for the series?

This years Pens are no better? Seriously? Come on burk, I thought you knew hockey better. Guerin is no Hossa, but he does play well with Crosby and provides the veteran guidance these kids need on the ice and in the locker room.

I saw open ice in the Detroit games I watched so far in this years playoffs. I was pretty much convinced Detroit had a "switch" they could flip and turn into a shutdown defensive unit like they did to us last year. Maybe they are waiting to flip that "switch" until now, because I haven't seen that defense yet from them in the playoffs.

-Mike
 
Comments on the goalie situation for each team?

I haven't watched any of the series after the quarter-finals. Both teams have high powered offense...and I think that the Pens are no joke depth wise....maybe not so much as the Wings...but it is still there. I think this series is may boil down to who the better goal tender is.

If that's the case I'll go with Osgood. The only current goalie who plays as good in the Playoffs is Brodeur. Ozzie right now is leading all playoff goalies in save percentage and goals against. That save percentage number is a big one because he doesn't see as many shots. He is number four all time in Playoff shutouts, only Roy, Brodeur, and Bennedict have more. Remember last season everyone talked about how superior the Pens goaltending was and all Osgood did was shut them out the first two games of the finals. His Playoff numbers are superior to Grant Fuhr and the step up he takes between reg. season and playoff numbers thru-out his career are exceptional. He should win the Con Smythe this season as he has been the Wings best player if you look at the entire run so far.
 
Picture if you will a goalie with the following career stats:

389 Regular Season Wins (T-10th all time)
.906 Save PCT
2.47 GAA
49 Shutouts (23rd all time)

71 Playoff Wins (T-8th all time)
.915 Save PCT
2.11 GAA
14 Shutouts (T-4th all time)

3 Stanley Cups, 2 as the Starter
2 time Jennings Trophy Winner


Would you say that's a Hall-of-Fame worthy career?










Now, would you vote Chris Osgood into the Hall-of-Fame? Those are his stats as of 9:41 AM EST on NHL.com
 
So the goal-tending aspect boils down to experience vs. youth.

From last years playoffs the only thing I can remember about Fluery is a lot of talk about his draft position. Pens' #1 choice and I believe #1 overall in 200? (I don't remember the draft year). Fluery is trying to emerge,...not as a starting goaltender...but as a star goal-tender. This could be the series where he shines...but then again...?
 
Wow. Why should Pittsburgh even bother showing up for the series?

This years Pens are no better? Seriously? Come on burk, I thought you knew hockey better. Guerin is no Hossa, but he does play well with Crosby and provides the veteran guidance these kids need on the ice and in the locker room.

I saw open ice in the Detroit games I watched so far in this years playoffs. I was pretty much convinced Detroit had a "switch" they could flip and turn into a shutdown defensive unit like they did to us last year. Maybe they are waiting to flip that "switch" until now, because I haven't seen that defense yet from them in the playoffs.

-Mike

First, I thought the Pens played better as the series progressed last year and by the end of the series they weren't dominated. In the first two games the Pens didn't know what had hit them, and they looked like it. Again remember Franzien who was the Wings best player last post-season and is a playoff beast wasn't available for the finals, plus the Wings have Hossa. It's not that the Pens aren't better but Gonchar isn't 100% and Gurin doesn't replace Hossa (who had the best series of any of the Pens last year). I still think if you look at it, while the Pens will have the two best offensive players on the ice, last year they might have had the three best. The Wings have the next five or six where as last year they had the next four. In other words the Wings (healthy) are way deeper then last year because of a healthy Franzien and Hossa. As far as my final analysis I pretty much agree with XYM. Wings Healthy in Six. If they're not Pittsburgh may pull it off.
 
Fluery is trying to emerge,...not as a starting goaltender...but as a star goal-tender. This could be the series where he shines...but then again...?

He's still working on it, got a ways to go still. I like what I have seen so far. He had the phenomenal game four against Philly, but hasn't played at that level since in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, he is a big part of the reason we are here.

What's with all the Hossa hype? He isn't that great.

You Detroit guys need to stop talking out of both sides of your mouth about these injuries. In one sentence you say how great your team is for winning despite all these great guys being out and how Babcock is the master tactician. Youre deeper than anyone else, you have top players along all four lines, yadda, yadda, yadda. Then, you also say if you end up losing to the Pens it is because some of your top guys were out. What's it going to be?

-Mike
 
He's still working on it, got a ways to go still. I like what I have seen so far. He had the phenomenal game four against Philly, but hasn't played at that level since in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, he is a big part of the reason we are here.

What's with all the Hossa hype? He isn't that great.

You Detroit guys need to stop talking out of both sides of your mouth about these injuries. In one sentence you say how great your team is for winning despite all these great guys being out and how Babcock is the master tactician. Youre deeper than anyone else, you have top players along all four lines, yadda, yadda, yadda. Then, you also say if you end up losing to the Pens it is because some of your top guys were out. What's it going to be?

-Mike

Well I wonder where the Pens would be if their two top players weren't available? Take Malkin and Crosby of that team, do they get by the Canes? Maybe. I personally think that Datsyuk and Lidstrom will be there and that Babcock held them back to heal for Saturday night. But Datsyuk and Lidstrom aren't exactly chopped liver, Datsyuk is a Hart finalist, and Lidstrom is perhaps the greatest defenseman to play the game. Yeah, I think they're deep and I think they can win with out them being 100%, but no I don't think they can win if they don't have them available for the series.
 
Well I wonder where the Pens would be if their two top players weren't available?

I'm not questioning who has the deeper team here. I know Detroit does. I've been saying that all season, even when some of you Detroit guys started giving up and picking San Jose to win it all. :D

I just wanted some clarification. As I suspected from you all, if Detroit has players out injured, that is why they will lose. Not because maybe the Pens outplayed them. If that's how you feel, stick with it. I don't want to hear no more "we're the best and deepest team ever, we can win games with our two best players out, no problem".

-Mike
 
Well I wonder where the Pens would be if their two top players weren't available? Take Malkin and Crosby of that team, do they get by the Canes? Maybe. I personally think that Datsyuk and Lidstrom will be there and that Babcock held them back to heal for Saturday night. But Datsyuk and Lidstrom aren't exactly chopped liver, Datsyuk is a Hart finalist, and Lidstrom is perhaps the greatest defenseman to play the game. Yeah, I think they're deep and I think they can win with out them being 100%, but no I don't think they can win if they don't have them available for the series.

I wouldn't be surprised.
 
I'm not questioning who has the deeper team here. I know Detroit does. I've been saying that all season, even when some of you Detroit guys started giving up and picking San Jose to win it all. :D

I just wanted some clarification. As I suspected from you all, if Detroit has players out injured, that is why they will lose. Not because maybe the Pens outplayed them. If that's how you feel, stick with it. I don't want to hear no more "we're the best and deepest team ever, we can win games with our two best players out, no problem".

-Mike


TheXym said:
A true hockey fan would want both teams healthy. Moving the series up with the back to back game 1 and 2 is a disservice to both teams and to all hockey fans - this series has the potential to be one of, if not the, best series of our generation if not all time - if both sides are healthy.

If wanting both sides healthy so there can't be any excuses is talking out of both sides of my mouth, so be it. This series has the potential to be the best finals ever. I want to see that happen, regardless of who wins or loses. But I want it decided by the PLAYERS on both teams at full strength. Read back over my previous posts. I'm pretty sure I give credit where it's due while still calling a spade a spade when it needs to be done. I believe I was giving some props to the Pens when I did my analysis, in particular to Bylsma, Malkin, Talbot, and to a lesser extent, Orpik, Gill, and Crosby.
 
Picture if you will a goalie with the following career stats:

389 Regular Season Wins (T-10th all time)
.906 Save PCT
2.47 GAA
49 Shutouts (23rd all time)

71 Playoff Wins (T-8th all time)
.915 Save PCT
2.11 GAA
14 Shutouts (T-4th all time)

3 Stanley Cups, 2 as the Starter
2 time Jennings Trophy Winner


Would you say that's a Hall-of-Fame worthy career?










Now, would you vote Chris Osgood into the Hall-of-Fame? Those are his stats as of 9:41 AM EST on NHL.com

I keep saying that Osgood is the goalie that I would pick out of every one in the NHL for the playoffs, even before Brodeur and I am a hugh Marty fan. He is just that good in the playoffs. That is what this series is going to come down to. IMO MAF isn't that good of a goalie, and certainly not a good enough to be a number one over all pick. There are plenty of goalies in the league that I would pick over him and he is the Pens one weakness.

lowsound
 
Mike, thanks for clarifying with the response. I actually do put some thought into my hockey posts, so I was a bit ticked off, but as per my PM, everything is cool from my end :)


In regards to the Datsyuk and Lidstrom situation, as I said before, if they were being held back to rest, that's Babs pulling a move to rival a Scotty Bowman mindwipe, but I don't completely buy it. I know they're expecting Ericsson to play, but having never had an appendectomy or knowing anyone who has, I can't comment on that. Oh, wait a minute - Babcock decided to punish them for blowing off the All-Star Weekend, yeah that's it :hiding:

Getting back to the upcoming series... even the most die-hard Wings fan needs to give the Pens credit for what they're bringing. Sid and Geno have stepped up the play big time. In all honesty, my Conn Smythe ballot today is Malkin 1st Osgood 2nd Zetterberg/Cleary/Crosby 3rd. I've been using the 83-84 Oilers comparison for a while (since last year), and it seems to be growing into a trendy analogy with the talking heads on ESPN, VS, etc. The Pens know what they need to do to win since they felt the crucible last year, and their bit of a rougher path in the first 2 rounds this year helped them focus. I honestly feel a healthy Wings team wins the series, but it won't be easy. With the Wings as battered as they are, they're going to give the Pens a hell of a fight. As I've said, I want BOTH teams healthy, fair officiating (or even better, GOOD officiating, but this IS the NHL and I can't ingest enough mind-altering substances to overcome that ;) ), and let the teams play.

I want this to be a series that I can get the DVD's of and watch over and over with my kids and grandkids regardless of whoever wins because it's some of the best hockey ever played. Not a series with an asterisk due to poor calls or injuries or other shenanigans. Yes, I'd greatly prefer a Wings victory, but if it's a series for the ages and the Pens win, great. I want the series to be over and both teams taking the handshake walk having left everything they had on the ice. No excuses for losing or winning, the hockey decided it. Period. As hockey fans, regardless of who we root for, that's what we should be rooting for in the end.


edit: per mlive.com Lidstrom is expected to play game 1 according to Holland, and Datsyuk, Ericsson and Draper are game day. The article also notes Lilja had the same surgery as Ericsson did in October on a Wednesday, missed 2 games then played on that Saturday.
 
Wow, there's been a lot of posting since I've been at work. I had about a half hour of reading to do here. Reading these posts make me feel like I'm watching NHL tonight on ESPN with Melrose and Engblom sporting their mullets. (Those were the days.)

So far I think The Xym said everything that's going through my mind. I do believe in my Wings and I know for a fact that we are at least 2 lines deeper than the Pens, however, the Pens have 2 things going for them heading into Saturday's game; health and momentum. Both of those combined equals a beat up Detroit line up. While I believe that Pittsburgh's stars will be held accountable for their skills in the playoffs by the Wing's defensemen, I also believe that the other guys on Pittsburgh's team can do something. Crosby and Malkin will be there to distract Detroit's defensemen so to give room to the other guys. If we're going to win this we have to stay ahead of Pittsburgh on the ice as well as on the bench. Babcock needs to think about what Pittsburgh is going to do next before they do it and then match his lines with theirs. Lebda is going to have to learn to quit trying to cut off passing lanes and hit the guy with the puck, unlike he did in that Chicago game last night when they scored their only goal. Osgood is doing an awesome job but he can only block what he can see. Franzen and Homstrom will need to take their spots in front of Fleury on the PP. One thing that has bothered me about the Wings in these playoffs is all the PP goals they've given up. They broke a record by allowing PP goals in 12 straight games. That kind of concerns me since we are going up against the golden boy of the NHL, and we all know how he likes to make a scene when he gets hit a little too hard. I just hope the refs see through his acting skills and call the game correctly.

I'm excited for this series and I totally believe that Pittsburgh has a chance here, not because they're better but because they seem to have a drive coming into this series like there's no second chance, this is it. That's scary IMO.
 
OK...more questions. I know the home team has the right to make the last change on a face off. Is it only one change per face off allowed? Is it a formal process where the visiting team sends in their changes, then the home team has a certain amount of time to roll out theirs?

Also....changes at face off. Are there rules as to IF you can make a line change? Like I am guessing if you get an icing call, you can make a line change for the face off? I remember hearing the commentators say at various times during the games I watched how one team was not able to make a change but the other team was. What is that all about?

Yeah, I can go read a rule book, but it's funner talking hockey with you all. Plus, I don't like to read books. :)

-Mike