Nirvana or Bob Dylan?

[mcblahflooper94]

Smells Like Ten Spirit, to me, is the worst possible example of anything in regards to Nirvana. The band admitted themselves that it was more of a throwaway song. And, you nailed it on the head as far as the "scratch lyrics" comment, these lyrics were written on the way to the studio.

A much better example from the same album, a song about abortion:

One baby to another says
I'm lucky to have met you
I don't care what you think
Unless it is about me
It is now my duty to completely drain you
I travel through a tube
And end up in your infection

Chew your meat for you
Pass it back and forth
In a passionate kiss
From my mouth to yours
I like you

With eyes so dialated
I've become your pupil
You've taught me everything
Without a poison apple
The water is so yellow
I'm a healthy student
Indebted and so grateful
Vacuum out the fluids

Chew your meat for you
Pass it back and forth
In a passionate kiss
From my mouth to yours
I like you

Certainly not the greatest poet of all time or anything, but Cobain had a great way with contradictory thoughts.
Admittedly, its not for everyone.

I completely agree. For some reason, people have chosen Heart-Shaped Box and Smells Like Teen Spirit to be the hits of nirvana.

 

[colcifer]

Have you every really listened to AIC lyrics, especially off of Dirt or their self-titled album? The lyrics to Angry Chair, Rooster or Down in a Hole are just as powerful (if not moreso) as anything Dylan ever wrote.

As big a Jerry Cantrell fan as I am, no.

Link Removed
Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues by Bob Dylan on Bootleg Series Vol. 4 Live 1966 - Free Music Streaming, Online Music, Videos - Grooveshark

 

[MatticusMania]

I completely agree. For some reason, people have chosen Heart-Shaped Box and Smells Like Teen Spirit to be the hits of nirvana.

Heart Shaped Box is a much better song, musically and lyrically, but their best work, to me, was always their non-single and B-side tracks.

here we are now, entertain us" sums up our current generation quite well, always demanding to be entertained in a passive-agressive fashion, bored by having a high an unrealistic expectation of what the world can provide.

One thing Kurt was great with was capturing and illustrating the angst of Generation X/Y.
Our band has decided to cover "Serve the Servants" which is a song that has always resonated well with me.

 

[DLKasim]

As big a Jerry Cantrell fan as I am, no.

Link Removed
Just Like Tom Thumb's Blues by Bob Dylan on Bootleg Series Vol. 4 Live 1966 - Free Music Streaming, Online Music, Videos - Grooveshark

Sorry, those two songs do nothing for me. I get more emotion and meaning from Kenny Roger's The Gambler or from Sympathy for the Devil. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[electracoyote]

For some reason, people have chosen Heart-Shaped Box and Smells Like Teen Spirit to be the hits of nirvana.

I see your point.

In all fairness, when I think of Dylan, it's usually the hits or high-profile songs, not the deep tracks.

It's probably a generational thing after all. One generation has the ability to interpret lyrics and have them resonate, the other, looking at the same lyrics, can not.

 

[Tituscrow]

Sorry, those two songs do nothing for me. I get more emotion and meaning from Kenny Roger's The Gambler or from Sympathy for the Devil. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this.

Try 'Visions of Johanna', 'Its Alright Ma, I'm Only Bleeding', 'The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll', 'Ballad of a Thin Man'...

Geez, I seriously can't believe people are putting Cobain up there with Dylan as a songwriter. But yes, it's probably down to generation I guess.

 

[Shakin-Slim]

I've never had a problem with Dylan's voice. If anything, it suits what he does perfectly, and when what he does changes, his voice changes. To me Dylan is the 20th centuries poet. There's more sincerity in It's All Over Now, Baby Blue than all Nirvana songs I've heard combined. It's not a generational thing for me, either. I'm 20. That said, I don't listen to much stuff after Nashville Skyline-era. I love that album and everything that came before it, and I also recognise what makes the later Dylan incarnations great, but musically it's the 60s and very early 70s stuff for me.

In regards to Smells Like Teen Spirit 'scratch lyrics', it's worse than something Dylan would sing off the top of his head on The Basement Tapes.




Ramona, come closer
Shut softly your watery eyes
The pangs of your sadness
Will pass as your senses will rise
The flowers of the city
Though breathlike, get deathlike some times
And there's no use in tryin'
To deal with the dyin'
Though I cannot explain that in lines.

 

[MatticusMania]

There's more sincerity in It's All Over Now, Baby Blue

Not to knock on Dylan at all, as I like his work, but I find Van Morrison's version much more appealing.

 

[Turock]

Have you every really listened to AIC lyrics, especially off of Dirt or their self-titled album? The lyrics to Angry Chair, Rooster or Down in a Hole are just as powerful (if not moreso) as anything Dylan ever wrote. Rooster is easily one of the best songs about war written in the past 30 years, and comes from a pretty unique perspective (that of the son of an emotionally/mentally scarred veteran).

A lot of people were fooled into thinking "Seattle = shouting + power chords" by a lot of the poor quality second and third generation grunge bands of the 90's. However, if you take the time to listen to the first generation Seattle bands, there is a lot of strong musicianship there.

I'll tell you what, open Google, put in "best songwriter of all time". AIC, Soundgarden will not be mentioned. Bob Dylan will be mentioned every time, and most often as the greatest ever. Go ahead, try it.

 

[electracoyote]

I've never had a problem with Dylan's voice. If anything, it suits what he does perfectly, and when what he does changes, his voice changes. To me Dylan is the 20th centuries poet. There's more sincerity in It's All Over Now, Baby Blue than all Nirvana songs I've heard combined. It's not a generational thing for me, either. I'm 20. That said, I don't listen to much stuff after Nashville Skyline-era. I love that album and everything that came before it, and I also recognise what makes the later Dylan incarnations great, but musically it's the 60s and very early 70s stuff for me.

In regards to Smells Like Teen Spirit 'scratch lyrics', it's worse than something Dylan would sing off the top of his head on The Basement Tapes.




Ramona, come closer
Shut softly your watery eyes
The pangs of your sadness
Will pass as your senses will rise
The flowers of the city
Though breathlike, get deathlike some times
And there's no use in tryin'
To deal with the dyin'
Though I cannot explain that in lines.

Wow. Impressive. I guess it's not all generational.

See Post #18 re: "mature perspective."

 

[mcblahflooper94]

In regards to Smells Like Teen Spirit 'scratch lyrics', it's worse than something Dylan would sing off the top of his head on The Basement Tapes.

that's my point. Kurt wrote completely stupid lyrics. They tend to make no sense, but occasionally require deep thought and are genius. Bob Dylan is a lyrical poetical genius, but as far as actual music is concerned, I think Nirvana sounds better, and writes more emotional, catchy songs.

Does that make sense? It's like, who's a better guitarist, Jack White or Yngwie Malmstein. emotion vs. skill. Of course, to say Dylan had NO emotion is just silly, but do you see my point?

 

[DLKasim]

I'll tell you what, open Google, put in "best songwriter of all time". AIC, Soundgarden will not be mentioned. Bob Dylan will be mentioned every time, and most often as the greatest ever. Go ahead, try it.

A Google search is not in any way relevant to this discussion. All that would tell me is who mainstream music critics rate highly in songwriting ability, and those music critics have been proven time and again to have massive generational bias against any post-1970's music. If you don't believe me, just look at any list of the greatest songs/albums/artists of all time, and look at how few post-70's artists occupy the top 50 spots. Go ahead, try it.

 

[Shakin-Slim]

Wow. Impressive. I guess it's not all generational.

See Post #18 re: "mature perspective."

You're right, Dylan does require a mature perspective. Personally, I've felt the same way about him since I was 14

In the words of Jim Carrey, "Bob Dylan is perfect... perfect... every time"

Jim Carrey singing Bob Dylan - YouTube

 

[notverygood]

I'll tell you what, open Google, put in "best songwriter of all time". AIC, Soundgarden will not be mentioned. Bob Dylan will be mentioned every time, and most often as the greatest ever. Go ahead, try it.

And Rolling Stone Mag has Alex Lifeson ranked behind one of the Ramones in their greatest guitarist list. According to them the guy from the Sex Pistols is better than Lindsay Buckingham. I don't see your point. I think his backing band "The Band" wrote much better songs than him, IMO. Better players, better singers. AIC and Soundgarden play in genres that aren't thought of as "songwriters." That's why they won't be mentioned, along with many others.

 

[Turock]

A Google search is not in any way relevant to this discussion. All that would tell me is who mainstream music critics rate highly in songwriting ability, and those music critics have been proven time and again to have massive generational bias against any post-1970's music. If you don't believe me, just look at any list of the greatest songs/albums/artists of all time, and look at how few post-70's artists occupy the top 50 spots. Go ahead, try it.

So, look at the ones that are not by "mainstream music critics". Tell me what you find.

Sorry man, but this bold statement of yours is laughable:
"like Alice in Chains or Soundgarden, who penned songs that were every bit as masterful as anything Dylan put out."

 

[mcblahflooper94]

And Rolling Stone Mag has Alex Lifeson ranked behind one of the Ramones in their greatest guitarist list. According to them the guy from the Sex Pistols is better than Lindsay Buckingham. I don't see your point. I think his backing band "The Band" wrote much better songs than him, IMO. Better players, better singers. AIC and Soundgarden play in genres that aren't thought of as "songwriters." That's why they won't be mentioned, along with many others.

Ya. Rolling stones is just

Stupid. Kurt Cobain is like the 14th greatest guitarist, haha. Buckethead/Satch aren't even ON the list. And Aretha Franklin is the greatest singer of all time. :I

 

[DLKasim]

Try 'Visions of Johanna', 'Its Alright Ma, I'm Only Bleeding', 'The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll', 'Ballad of a Thin Man'...

Geez, I seriously can't believe people are putting Cobain up there with Dylan as a songwriter. But yes, it's probably down to generation I guess.

I'm trying, I really am, but I just don't see what is exceptional about those songs.

 

[Turock]

And Rolling Stone Mag has Alex Lifeson ranked behind one of the Ramones in their greatest guitarist list. According to them the guy from the Sex Pistols is better than Lindsay Buckingham. I don't see your point. I think his backing band "The Band" wrote much better songs than him, IMO. Better players, better singers. AIC and Soundgarden play in genres that aren't thought of as "songwriters." That's why they won't be mentioned, along with many others.

Look elsewhere besides Rolling Stone (which does put Dylan at #1, BTW). Look anywhere you want to. The general consensus is that Bob Dylan is one of, if not the greatest songwriter ever.

 

[Darth Handsome]

I'm trying, I really am, but I just don't see what is exceptional about those songs.

You're in the minority, then.

 

[DLKasim]

So, look at the ones that are not by "mainstream music critics". Tell me what you find.

Sorry man, but this bold statement of yours is laughable:
"like Alice in Chains or Soundgarden, who penned songs that were every bit as masterful as anything Dylan put out."

Did you even read what I wrote? Any kind of absolute rating system of artists across genres or timespans is totally arbitrary and highly subject to the raters' taste, and is therefore meaningless to anyone other than a rater him/herself, or someone with a nearly identical set of life experiences. Since I am not a music critic, have a real job, and have a different set of life experience than some random person cranking out artist listings, their opinions don't matter to me. I'd tell you that they shouldn't matter to you either, but that's up to you to decide, not me.

Dylan does nothing for me, while AIC and Soundgarden do. To me (and to a lot of people in my generation) they made more relevant, meaningful, and impactful music than Dylan. They are from a different genre, period of time, and mode of thinking/place in their lives as Dylan, without a doubt, and that affected the content of their music in a way that made it resonate in a different way with a different group of people. I happen to be part of that group, while you obviously aren't.

The only thing laughable here is YOU telling me that MY OPINION is wrong.