(Nothing against attorneys, by the way. But it has always been presented in such a way as to suggest that the artists alone are cheated when fees are not paid.)
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No Cover Song Policy???
- Thread starter Jazz Hands
- Start date
Somebody decided not to pay the ASCAP royalty flat fee or some such.
What skinflints.
No, they pay that ASCAP fee, and they're "covered" (punny!)
You'd be surprised in re enforcement. I believe ASCAP has investigators that make the rounds of venues like this, making sure everything is over.
If not: "You are served." (And I ain't talkin' about drinks).
Corporate events are usually held at venues that pay the fees (large hotels, convention centers, etc) so you would probably be good to go, but I would definitely ask the venue first.
Weddings, unless open to the public, are private events, which may not meet the ASCAP requirement of "public preformance", so you might be OK as well. (I do not believe ASCAP reps are going to weddings!)
In either case, the venue is responsible for the fees, not the band. If they allow covers and are not paying the fees, then they are liable for any fines.
Weddings, unless open to the public, are private events, which may not meet the ASCAP requirement of "public preformance", so you might be OK as well. (I do not believe ASCAP reps are going to weddings!)
In either case, the venue is responsible for the fees, not the band. If they allow covers and are not paying the fees, then they are liable for any fines.
Thanks for the info. I was looking at weddings as playing in public rather than being a private event. Makes much more sense now.
I'll admit I'm a noob to this aspect of the gigging. I went to ASCAP's website and get a little lost on what I need to register for. Can you provide some instruction on what type license I should get, links, etc etc. For 40 bucks it seems well worth it, plus I also play in a cover band which now I'm a little more worried about.
Thanks!
Thanks!
i have always heard that as long as you don't play the song note for note, word for word, its not legally the same song, so your good to go. (regarding live performances). And also that it depends on whether the band is getting paid, and if the venue is charging a cover............
Not true?
Not true?
i have always heard that as long as you don't play the song note for note, word for word, its not legally the same song, so your good to go. (regarding live performances). And also that it depends on whether the band is getting paid, and if the venue is charging a cover............
Sorry, but I think whoever told you that was talkin' through his hat.
I seem to recall this was a huge issue in the early days of "sampling" in the hip-hop world. There were lawsuits, even though the samples might be obscure, just a few notes, and only a part of an "original" composition.
If "just a few notes" would be actionable, I would think that some of "their" notes mixed in with some of "your" notes would be a problem, too.
good to know
, although most of the gigs i play are in boise and the boise area:scowl:, not much for a music scene here covers or otherwise so dout i have much to worry about.
i would like to point out to the OP...
they made one HUGE mistake.
if they aren't paying that ASCAP fee, then they aren't allowed to play music (copyrighted music anyways) from the ipod in between bands either...
so it was rather hypocritical to pull that on you.
personally, i've never heard of a band playing covers getting this kind of nonsense thrown at them. everybody KNOWS it's a cover, it's usually ANNOUNCED as a cover... nobody is losing. it's not like you're covering a band that is playing in town that night and drawing from their crowd or something... and if anything... somebody might go find the original and (heaven forbid!) buy the record...
[spunj13]
they made one HUGE mistake.
if they aren't paying that ASCAP fee, then they aren't allowed to play music (copyrighted music anyways) from the ipod in between bands either...
so it was rather hypocritical to pull that on you.
personally, i've never heard of a band playing covers getting this kind of nonsense thrown at them. everybody KNOWS it's a cover, it's usually ANNOUNCED as a cover... nobody is losing. it's not like you're covering a band that is playing in town that night and drawing from their crowd or something... and if anything... somebody might go find the original and (heaven forbid!) buy the record...
[spunj13]
You might want to ask about that.
+1 When my buddy's blues bar was dealing with this back in the 90's,I believe the reps said a radio or CD could be played because nobody would be making money from it.
There are several venues in Indy that have no cover rules. A small club called Parrot Heads was fined $20,000 for Karaoke and not haveing a ASCAP/BMI SESAC performance lic, somebody for Madona and Kenny Edmonds blew the whistle at 10 grand each and the bar ended up shutting down. The lic here is $1000.00/year I don't know how he got away with the IPOD because a Jukebox IS the ASCAP/BMI SESAC etc monitor. Back in the day, we used to have union guys come on stage and ask for union cards, if you did not have one you were escorted off the stage and the band was fined as well as the venue. There are still union only venues here but they are concert halls not bars or clubs. Some clubs call themselves private and sell mebership card to get around it but you won't see many of those
The band is liable as well but they go after the bar because the bar has real assets....if you are a popular band with a big name they may come after you. This is why you would buy sheet music. but that won't cover everything.. Below is from Copyrights for the working musician.
If you are playing a piece of copyrighted music, fees are owed anytime you make a public performance, distribute a CD or cassette recording, or put MIDI, WAV, MP3, Real Audio or other files on a web page. Exactly what the fees are, who owes the fees and to whom the fees are paid differs depending on a variety of variables
Public Performance
According to how the copyright laws work, you can not simply go out in public and play copyrighted music, even if you are not charging for your performance. It seems like you ought to be able to, but the law says you can't. To stay within the law, you must pay performance fees (or have permission of the copyright holder) for any public performance of copyrighted music.
The phrase "public performance" means pretty much that: a performance open to the public. It does not include performances such as playing for a group of friends at a party.
As a good general rule, any performance for which you are being paid requires that performance fees be paid. In theory, if you are a street musician, you owe performance fees to Paul McCartney if you play his music. Of course, nobody bothers with trying to enforce this level of violation.
Fortunately, the performer is almost never responsible for paying these fees. The "venue" is almost always responsible for paying the fees for public performance. The venue is the business or organization that is "hosting" the performance. Examples of venues are: a night club that features live music, a restaurant, a bowling alley, a theater, a classical guitar society, a university.
In the United States, the fees for public performance are paid to one of two organizations: ASCAP and BMI.
ASCAP and BMI greatly simplify the process of paying fees for the public performance of music. Composers sign up with one or the other of these agencies, and the agencies then collect the fees for public performance and distribute them to the composers. Since the money is funneled through one place, it is much easier for venues to pay, which also makes it more likely that the venues will pay.
A venue that regularly features music will likely buy a license from ASCAP and BMI that covers the venue for a long period of time. You sometimes will see stickers displayed from ASCAP or BMI in clubs.
ASCAP and BMI also function as an enforcement arm for the collection of performance fees. They can and do go after flagrant violations of copyright on behalf of their composers. Composers, in general, like ASCAP and BMI
All this on top of the internet is why the record industry is so screwed up..The are holding back the "classic" artists that suddenly disappeared around 1998 Don Henlys, Stings Gladys Knights, Seals big rockers other than Aerosmith that put out songs that lasted decades on the charts and radio rotation....how do you stop the cash leaks...so its meatered out one genre at a time with the least amount initial cost but also has the least of staying power...that's another rant
So let me get this straight ...
The only music in these venues is the original music being played by the band that is there at the moment? No music at any other point in time? If so is it just local artists who allow the venue to play their music royalty free? No jukebox?
The only music in these venues is the original music being played by the band that is there at the moment? No music at any other point in time? If so is it just local artists who allow the venue to play their music royalty free? No jukebox?
Yes but any artist can perform not just local as long as the songs are original by the performer. And if you are wondering if a performer can play thier own yet copyrighted material. Yes unless someone else owns the performance rights rare but happens....
This is incorrect. A license is necessary to play recorded music in a restaurant or bar. A license is also necessary for playing the radio, through there are exceptions for "food service or drinking establishments" and certain "other establishments."
Yup, I have dealt with the Music Mafia as both a club owner and a band. Usually a bar/club will let you get away with a couple of covers, so this club may have been under scrutiny from the local ASCAP "godfather". The iPOD I don't know about, but we even had to go so far as not playing the radio or personal CD's in clubs I played in or owned. Now, if the club has a juke box, ASCAP is supposed to be taken care of by the Tax Fee on the juke box.
Yes but any artist can perform not just local as long as the songs are original by the performer. And if you are wondering if a performer can play thier own yet copyrighted material. Yes unless someone else owns the performance rights rare but happens....
Interesting.
In the 15 years I've been playing in cover bands I have never heard of ASCAP raiding a venue or harassing a band. I guess those places have their bases covered.
Actually Jessica Hill, the sister of Mildred and Patty Hill, who originally wrote the song, owns the copyright. But only until 2030.
