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No more 15s for me!

#63
I've got to throw in my two cents, as far as rock in general goes, I think the 2x15 or 1x15 and 1x18 cabinet combinations have plenty of definition and "response" to them. I've never noticed a 15" speaker responding differently to my playing in comparison to anything else. I just set the EQ on my amp so it gets the right amount of clarity in the sound, and it works fine from there. Also I must disagree, I think 15"s work BEST with high midrange, so the "frowny-face" EQ then.

But I will say that every time I've seen rock bass players with 10"s, (be it 2x10, 4x10, or 8x10), their sound gets "lost" in the mix, especially when you have guitarists with big amps (4x12s and greater, and yes, I've been on both sides of the equation, including being overpowered by a bassist playing out of a 2x15 cab, and I had a 200 watt Sunn Concert Lead going into a 4x12 cabinet!)
 
#64
billfitzmaurice said:
It's the product of the driver. Smaller drivers have a wider dispersion angle. Placing them side by side narrows the dispersion angle, however, so you can end up with a pair of tens that have narrower dispersion than one fifteen via that design error. :rollno:
Which is just one more reason why broad generalizations over the effect of driver size are inherently flawed. With drivers as with other tools what you use is far less important than how you use it. :D
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Is this why Mr Bergantino never places his speakers at any sort of square angle to each other then? At least not in any cab I've ever seen of his.
 
#65
SwamiRob said:
Is this why Mr Bergantino never places his speakers at any sort of square angle to each other then? At least not in any cab I've ever seen of his.
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From an engineering standpoint the closer the driver centers are to being on a vertical line the better the result. The best result, therefore, is realized with the drivers vertically aligned.
 
#67
billfitzmaurice said:
From an engineering standpoint the closer the driver centers are to being on a vertical line the better the result. The best result, therefore, is realized with the drivers vertically aligned.
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Interesting, cos with alot of his cabs it seems like he could if anything save a little space doing this. As he seems to cater to the compact/lightweight market a fair bit.
 
#69
pedro said:
Bill I guess its a give and take situation - more drivers (a good thing) / side by side (not so good). But is what is the overall balance?
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To each their own. But from an engineering standpoint the two rules of loudspeaker design most often short shrifted by amateurs and professionals alike is vertically aligning drivers that operate into the midrange and using an adequate cabinet volume for the drivers within.
 
#70
billfitzmaurice said:
To each their own. But from an engineering standpoint the two rules of loudspeaker design most often short shrifted by amateurs and professionals alike is vertically aligning drivers that operate into the midrange and using an adequate cabinet volume for the drivers within.
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You lost me. I get the vertically alignment but operate into midrange and adequate cabinet volume?
 
#72
Drifta said:
thats funny considering 90% of all big reggae acts use a ampeg 8x10 and svt head...
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Probably using backline supplied for many gigs. In any case most go through the PA, so you're not hearing the 8x10 anyway. I haven't seen may reggae bassists miking their cabs either, Family Man is a notable exception- he mixes a miked feed with a DI. I used to see a lot more Ampeg rigs but these days everything goes.

The bass is usually handled FOH by a heap of 18" subs at most of the shows I've been to over the years. Pant flapping goodness.
 
#74
pedro said:
You lost me. I get the vertically alignment but operate into midrange and adequate cabinet volume?
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Side by side drivers are fine if they only operate up to the frequency where their centers are less than one wavelength apart. I'm not aware of any commercial bass cabs that adhere to that rule. Too small a cabinet volume for the driver used kills bass response.
 
#75
Rhythm5 said:
That's why I love 212 cabinets...a good all around sound with quick response and plenty of low end!
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p-nut95 said:
+1
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pfschim said:
+1 ... I'll say. That's why I'm totally digging my Mesa Venture .. the MPluse600, 600 tube driven mosfet watts, driving a ported Mesa 2x12 cab. Sweet.

I must say that I do not like 10's in general, but prefer the sound of 12s + 15s. to my ears, a very nice combination is a 1x12 w/tweet (slightly rolled off) + 1x15 w/tweet (slightly rolled off). If you can adjust the crossover, then (5k) on the 15 and 3k on the 12 is truly wonderful to my ears.
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+3. The only thing I might ever use 15's or 10's for is supplementing the sound from my 12's.
 
#77
alexclaber said:
Fair enough but don't use this to build up the "JimmyM big hypothesis on speakers" because you're using poor data and logic and just end up misdirecting the even less well informed. ;)

Alex
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I'll bet you that everyone coming through here- if they don't know how to do it yet- is learning to think and listen for themselves.

It's obvious that Jimmy M caters to his ears. It's not a book-learned (an expression) kind of articulation he's exercising, but rather the lore of the subjective. If you're obeying your ears, then as a player you're doing something right. I was interested to hear Mr Fitzmaurice correct the presumtion that 15" drivers are slower to respond to transients than 10" drivers- I've made that assertion myself! Pretty cool- but nevertheless, they most often sound that way!

Things seem to behave a certain way, whether you understand why or not- which is really the bottom-line for decision making when you choose a piece of gear that you feel best expresses your voice. Science needs hard data, definitely true. But music needs the raw experience. We know that's where Jimmy's coming from.

Not a musician I know or play with uses pure science to make a quality decision about what cab, amp, or axe to use.

Just thought I'd throw that in. :)

P.S. Great thread!
 
#78
Thanks Count. That is absolutely right. I'm definitely no techie but I'm trying to learn. But I do have over 30 years of playing professionally under my belt and I do think I know something. Maybe I don't...whatever ;)
 
#79
JimmyM said:
Man, I couldn't disagree more! I have so grown to hate that snappy bright slappy funk sound. I'm so into slapping on a Precision with the highs rolled off past 2k. Just get enough high end to give it an edge, but make it big and fat. "Brick House"...now that's slap tone!
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Now let's hear a big fat Aaaammennnnn!

There's definitely something special about how air spills around a larger cone, subtly changing the perceived tone versus how it spills around a small cone.

Folks seem to forget that a speaker's output is analog, not digital.

I love tens too but there's nothing like a big, fat fifteen rolled off.

NICE!

:D

Joe.
 
#80
I'm gonna +1 this... there's nothing- nothing at all- like the sound of a 15 with the top-end rolled off. And even more, there's nothing like two of them set this way. Gawd- I'm running a Sunn 300T into a home-modified 215 cab with BW 1505s, most of what's above 2K pulled down, and the Low boost pulled up. Got a Burns Marquee (32" scale bolt-on) plugged in, and it's rich, dark, and punchy. Very satisfying sound for funk, reggae, rock.
 

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