I'm sometimes amazed at how bands do not pick up on this. Especially if you're presenting a rock show, the whole point is not to be spontaneous, but to give the illusion of spontaneity.
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No set list, I'm not playing.
- Thread starter TRichardsbass
- Start date
I'm sometimes amazed at how bands do not pick up on this. Especially if you're presenting a rock show, the whole point is not to be spontaneous, but to give the illusion of spontaneity.
I have songs where I'm going to play a 12-string guitar, capoed to the 4th fret. Or the 2nd fret. Or open.
I have songs where I'm going to be blowing a harp in the key of D. Or G. Or A. Or, in some cases, a combination of two harps.
I have songs where I'm going to be playing keys, and the setting is "piano." Or "organ." Or "synth mixed with strings."
I have songs where I play bass. For some, I use a five-string.
When people feel like being "spontaneous" with set lists, I often feel like being "violent" with people.
Maybe that's just me.
I have songs where I'm going to be blowing a harp in the key of D. Or G. Or A. Or, in some cases, a combination of two harps.
I have songs where I'm going to be playing keys, and the setting is "piano." Or "organ." Or "synth mixed with strings."
I have songs where I play bass. For some, I use a five-string.
When people feel like being "spontaneous" with set lists, I often feel like being "violent" with people.
Maybe that's just me.
So so true and probably the biggest reason the cover band I play in has done well in our area the last two years. We're a rock band....not a party band. There are a dozen party bands in our area but we succeed by being a band known for heavier set lists which give people a break from the party bands. I can't tell you how often after a set I have people coming up to me saying how refreshing it is to hear some harder stuff and not the same ol same ol party band stuff.
Please note this isn't a cut on party bands....this is just agreeing with TR that because we don't try to be all things to all people, we've become known for a certain type of set. Because of that, we've maintained a steady gig schedule for several years, playing all the same clubs the party bands play and commanding the same money. We chose our style, stuck with it and it works.
Yep. In business terms, it's very much a branding issue. In creative terms, it's very much an aesthetic issue.
However you classify it, the essential point is that there is an inverse relationship between quantity and quality, i.e. as TR states, the more things you try to be to more people, the less you become known for anything in particular. And the more specific and precise you make your band, its music & its image, the more likely you are to stick in the minds of the people who encounter you. In terms of penetration of the public consciousness, you can either go wide & shallow - or you can go narrow & deep.
Agreed. I see bands all the time comprised of good to very good players - in the abstract. But most put just about ZERO thought, time or effort into their stage show - and it shows.
MM
edit: Got lucky and the BL gave me 2 of his CD's to learn 3 days before the gig....26 songs in 3 evenings....made some nice cheat sheets (don't care what order the songs get called I just want to have an idea of what I'm supposed to do in them since they are originals and I've never heard them before).....The gig went as perfectly as it could have, no flubs and I did surprise myself....had a great time and even made $$....WOW....
I've decided to do the gig......I've only subbed once before and the BL had a CD from which I learned the songs 2 days before the gig but this BL has no recordings of his original songs.....some will be simple blues changes but not all, from what he told me, so I'll just "loosen up" as you say and pretend I'm at a jam and hopefully I will surprise myself.....there must be a reason why he contacted me and even if I'm just a "weekend warrior" it will be nice to get paid for a change.....just as long as my name is NOT mentioned and since it's out of town slightly then no one should know me......lol
I've decided to do the gig......I've only subbed once before and the BL had a CD from which I learned the songs 2 days before the gig but this BL has no recordings of his original songs.....some will be simple blues changes but not all, from what he told me, so I'll just "loosen up" as you say and pretend I'm at a jam and hopefully I will surprise myself.....there must be a reason why he contacted me and even if I'm just a "weekend warrior" it will be nice to get paid for a change.....just as long as my name is NOT mentioned and since it's out of town slightly then no one should know me......lol
Actually, that kind of gig can be a lot more fun than you might think - if you can just completely loosen up, and get in the right frame of mind for it.
Consider it a type of improv training. Challenge yourself to see how quickly you can make up a bassline on the spot that really grooves, and fits the key, the rhythm, and the tempo. If the bandleader can't provide you with anything more than the key signature and the chord changes, he can't exactly expect a virtuoso performance (though you personally might surprise yourself).
Of course, I would NEVER perform a gig in that manner - if MY NAME or the name of MY BAND was on the marquee...
MM
It takes a lot of rehearsal time to make this stuff look spontaneous!
A lot of people don't seem to understand the difference between "spontaneous" & "sloppy".
I like having a set list 24 hours in advance so I can verify that
I know the chord progressions and necessary bass riffs. If
there are some hard-to-remember parts, I can always scribble
some notes on my set list.
Of course, what I like and what I get are typically two different things.
Deviating from the set list is fine. For me, it's a whole lot
easier to deviate knowing that I've got most of it under control.
No set list plus deviating makes it doubly difficult.
I know the chord progressions and necessary bass riffs. If
there are some hard-to-remember parts, I can always scribble
some notes on my set list.
Of course, what I like and what I get are typically two different things.
Deviating from the set list is fine. For me, it's a whole lot
easier to deviate knowing that I've got most of it under control.
No set list plus deviating makes it doubly difficult.
I play in three cover bands, none of which gigs more than once a month (if that, truthfully) all three are in different styles, with 40-60 song lists each and maybe 5-10 songs of total overlap between the three. Without a set list, I'd be sunk trying to remember what's next, or even what's in the repertoire. Having a set list and following it and having the band all on the same page ready to go with a song looks rehearsed and professional. Having one guy shout something out and the rest of the band saying "huh??" and then looking at each other while the leader stands there waiting for the drummer to click things off looks haphazard and amateur. Sometimes if the end of the night is approaching and things are heating up, we'll drop a song here or there to keep up with the hot numbers before the end of the gig, but even then you run the risk of losing that crowd energy that you're trying to hard to maintain while you pass the word through the band.
We dont use setlists and we never have any problems. we have a list of all the songs we do but thats just for reference. er hasvent had a set list since we ditched our lead singer and started doing ourselves, but hey we are a dirty rock n roll, blurs jam band sooooo...whats this setlist you speak of?
Joe Murray said:
Huh. I kind of enjoy the challenge. Working with quality players, it's not THAT hard.
That is true only if the group wants to be perceived by the audience as being an experienced, seasoned, pro level group of musicians.
If all the group wants to do is come across as an average, run-of-the-mill, dime-a-dozen "local" group that you can find on just about any street corner in any local town, then the above does not apply.
There's no right or wrong. Each group sets their own goal level, and that is the right of choice for each group.
What I have found after playing bass for 40 years is, whatever level the group sets for their goal, that is the level at which the audience will perceive them. Somewhat akin to a self-fulfilling prophecy.
For me, there is only one type of group that I have any interest in being in, and it is what you described in your post. Of course, there are plenty of others who choose differently, which is fine too.
All IMO of course.
everyone seems to have misread the OP......we are talking about a setlist for bass players SUBBING a gig at the last minute without ever having played with the band (and for me it's an originals band and I've never heard the songs)......
Got called to sub with a money-engine covers band a couple of months back. Full time bassist provides me with list of 35 tunes. Spend 3 late nights getting the set down. Write out what I've learned in nice big hand on a couple of sheets of A4. Turn up to gig and say, "Look guys, I'm not trying to say this should be the set, but this is what I've learned, so would be really great if you could work largely from these". Band leader and guitarist livid, immediately start with "WHAT? YOU DON'T KNOW THE TUNE XXX, YYY?" and launch away into tunes I've never heard.
My take on it: if I was really on the ball, I'd have played a better set than these recycle-it-for-decades-in-tourisy-hotels egomusicianiacs.
Better stay in that woodshed!
My take on it: if I was really on the ball, I'd have played a better set than these recycle-it-for-decades-in-tourisy-hotels egomusicianiacs.
Better stay in that woodshed!
My band has over 200 songs that we can play on any given night. No chance of a song list when you're playing to crowd responses and requests.
Many successful event bands solve the problem by simply having very large songbooks and consulting w/ clients about play lists (and no-play lists).
We have a master song list. Have not had an actuall set list in 13 years with the band I am in now, and when I toured down south with my country band for 4 years, never once had a set list or a master list. The leader of that band called a key and you jumped in. Played 100+ shows a year like that.
loopee said:
I do it (with cover bands) all the time. Sometimes even in corporate/wedding situations. Not a problem.
Subbing in an originals group? Well, now that's a different story, and a rare one.
I like having a set list when doing sub gigs with cover bands so I can learn and practice the songs ahead of time. Once I know the songs I don't care what order the BL call them at a gig. I just don't like to wing it or learn a song at the gig on the fly - even simple arrangements. The audience is there to hear a performance not to watch folks learn songs at a gig.
Bang on, 35 years of material on constant rotation and audience driven is the way to hang. Going one step farther, we'll leave a large print list of near 300 songs at the front of the stage and as intoxication descends that list is a hot spot with patrons who are more than willing to make the choices. No fretting over a list here, and it keeps it fresh.
