No set list, I'm not playing.

[gumbynotpokey]

....and not only all that but it was all original songs? Geeze.

 

[JohnMCA72]

...
spontaneous, improvised art form, man". OK, I get that. But this is what bugs me: we finish a song, then we look at each other and start discussing how we all did.
"I started to play the Basie ending, but then I heard what you were doing, so I tried to follow that..."
"I thought you were going to play the high harmony note, so I played ..."

After a minute or two of this, the selection of the next tune starts.

"How about Straight No Chaser?"
"No, we just did a blues, how about a latin tune? Girl From Ipanema?"
"OK, yeah. (starts flipping through Real Book) Wait, how about Triste?"
"Triste, yeah. Is that in Book 1 or Book 2?" (more flipping through books)

Now five minutes have gone by and we're still not playing yet.,

That's one of the worst things that a band can do, yet I see people (musicians) all the time who seem to think it's OK. A friend of mine once gave me a rough video of a set their band played. During one of those interminable pauses between songs, you could clearly hear somebody (who was obviously close to the recorder) yell, "Jesus Christ, play something!!!"

If I'm ever a band leader, there will be a set list, all players will have it a week in advance, and all players will be expected to have their charts printed out, in order, at the start of the gig. Otherwise you are not getting your share of the $23 we made in tips. Wait, maybe that's the problem right there...

You think?

 

[JohnMCA72]

Master song lists I can see, but the crowd dictates what you should play next. . .

That's another fallacy that's related to "It's got to be spontaneous!" As a musician onstage, individual or as part of a unit, our job is to be the "leader" or facilitator of the party. Trying to follow the crowd is like the Captain of a ship just letting his ship go wherever the wind & currents take it. More than likely it's going to end up on the rocks somewhere, & at the very least not end up where you want it (although you may have some interesting sights & experiences along the way!.

A good ship Captain knows how to apply wind against his sails & water against his keel & rudder, to make his ship go where it needs to go. A good band leader can do the same with a crowd and well-organized set. The set list is like the Captain's charts. You may very well deviate from the planned course from time to time, just don't wind up aground off some Italian island.

 

[Marko 1]

I agree Ben Wilkie.

As for cover bands, I don't understand why your set list would NOT be 99.99% dance tunes period. When I read guys saying " go with the crowd and if they want to dance" i am flummoxed. If you are playing a bar you should be playing things that make them dance and thirsty, so they drink more and dance more. Why would you play anything that isn't fun? You are not paid to entertain yourself, you are paid to entertain the crowd.

...

YES… thank you.

Having finally taken the initiative to be the BL, as we’re updating our setlists I’ve experienced the struggle of keeping it focused on dance, as musicians do tend to fall back to the songs they like to play.

A couple times I got the argument “Well, it’s a popular song, people love this song”, and I have to say “Yes, while they’re in their car or home, but they come out to DANCE!” I also explain that no matter how much you love doing a song, doing it in front of an empty dance floor is a complete drag. (One member is highly-skilled and invaluable, but no stage experience, and one is from heavier rock, and we’re going for a different crowd.) I also explained that we’ll be the new band on the block, and whatever they’re doing right, we have to do MORE right.

Treating more like a business, a invoked a Mission Statement, which, to make clear and unambiguous, I broke down to “Bitches on the dancefloor”… do this, and the rest falls into place. (guys follow, drinks are purchased, you get hired back).

Oh, and to keep this on-topic, the band talking amongst themselves is not a dance tune.

 

[pasta4lnch]

That's another fallacy that's related to "It's got to be spontaneous!" As a musician onstage, individual or as part of a unit, our job is to be the "leader" or facilitator of the party.

Well, that was sort of my point - but trying to predict a crowd in advance? Listen, not saying set lists are bad - but when I play a place that is known for older classic rock crowd and a butt load of twenty something's come in looking to dance, no pre-gig set list in the world is going to lead them (to anywhere other than the door ). Believe it or not, this sort of thing happens a lot to places I play (crowds being radically different from gig to gig). Just trying to say flexibility far supersedes the comfort of knowing what song is next.

Maybe I've been spoiled by the bands I've played in that do this - that have a leader who is usually on the mark. Kinda the same for song forms/endings too. I've grown quite fond of changing it up. The crowds always seem to be WAY more responsive to that too . . . flubs and all. ymmv

 

[lucas vigor]

Several people have said "my regular band doesn't use a set list", and I think that's fine. You all know the material and can probably transition from one song to the next fairly quickly. To me, that's the key: keep the energy up, keep entertaining the audience.

...

That was my band. And yeah, we have gotten pretty good at it...but that is after like 7 years, slogging away. But it is never perfect, and I am never satisfied with it. In the back of my mind, I am always wondering how great it would be if we used a set list and STUCK to it, and of course, played the songs the same frickin way each time!

That's important to me, as I like to write my bass lines as a story arc, pacing myself, holding back and then unleashing at the right moments...impossible to do if you have no idea where the song is going.

Disclaimer: We play traditional hawaiian music, and those old timers are known for keeping it loose and sloppy...it's all part of the laid back attitude....but we are set to play a festival in San Diego today...and I have no idea how it is going to go! Our guitarist (steel) has somewhat of a setlist, but i already know our BL will not go by it. I am actually not even going to bother with any back-up vox today....

 

[Richland123]

My band is very adept at going from one song to the next with no song list and many people compliment that fact that we do not spend time between songs, are very versatile with a variety of music with over 130 songs covering 6 decades, take requests (if we know them) and play them soon after they are requested. We usually don't have our opening song selected until we get up to start. Sometimes, we ease into the show depending on the venue and crowd and sometimes we come out rocking. I always believe though just because that formula works for us does not mean it works for other bands; especially if there is some type of show or banter built around the songs. It helps that we already know the songs and can just call something out and play it. I have played in many bands that I had to create a set list for every week and that worked for those bands.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Well, that was sort of my point - but trying to predict a crowd in advance? Listen, not saying set lists are bad - but when I play a place that is known for older classic rock crowd and a butt load of twenty something's come in looking to dance, no pre-gig set list in the world is going to lead them (to anywhere other than the door ). Believe it or not, this sort of thing happens a lot to places I play (crowds being radically different from gig to gig). Just trying to say flexibility far supersedes the comfort of knowing what song is next.

Maybe I've been spoiled by the bands I've played in that do this - that have a leader who is usually on the mark. Kinda the same for song forms/endings too. I've grown quite fond of changing it up. The crowds always seem to be WAY more responsive to that too . . . flubs and all. ymmv

Any good band/leader will scout out clubs before hand. A "classic rock club" may only be that way on Friday nights and Sunday afternoon. Most clubs are younguns on Saturday night, period. So even if you are playing McSorleys "we are so Irish the Irish think its Ireland" pub Saturday night the closest to Irish they want to get is one U2 song. Yes, crowds can differ, but most peeps look for the band, not the club, unless the club has an ironclad rep. You don't go to Jenks in Point expecting to hear Southern Rock. You expect modern DJ and popular cover band playing newer stuff. However, Jenks does country music on Wednesdays. So yes, the crowd will differ based on the night.

But a set list still rules...

 

[fdeck]

My band is very adept at going from one song to the next with no song list and many people compliment that fact that we do not spend time between songs, are very versatile with a variety of music with over 130 songs covering 6 decades, take requests (if we know them) and play them soon after they are requested. We usually don't have our opening song selected until we get up to start. Sometimes, we ease into the show depending on the venue and crowd and sometimes we come out rocking. I always believe though just because that formula works for us does not mean it works for other bands; especially if there is some type of show or banter built around the songs. It helps that we already know the songs and can just call something out and play it. I have played in many bands that I had to create a set list for every week and that worked for those bands.

That's cool, but do you ever hire subs?

 

[fdeck]

Several people have said "my regular band doesn't use a set list", and I think that's fine. You all know the material and can probably transition from one song to the next fairly quickly. To me, that's the key: keep the energy up, keep entertaining the audience.

I do a lot of sub gigs with jazz bands, and it seems like no one ever wants to commit to a set list. "It's a spontaneous, improvised art form, man". OK, I get that. But this is what bugs me: we finish a song, then we look at each other and start discussing how we all did.
"I started to play the Basie ending, but then I heard what you were doing, so I tried to follow that..."
"I thought you were going to play the high harmony note, so I played ..."

After a minute or two of this, the selection of the next tune starts.

"How about Straight No Chaser?"
"No, we just did a blues, how about a latin tune? Girl From Ipanema?"
"OK, yeah. (starts flipping through Real Book) Wait, how about Triste?"
"Triste, yeah. Is that in Book 1 or Book 2?" (more flipping through books)

Now five minutes have gone by and we're still not playing yet.

If I'm ever a band leader, there will be a set list, all players will have it a week in advance, and all players will be expected to have their charts printed out, in order, at the start of the gig. Otherwise you are not getting your share of the $23 we made in tips. Wait, maybe that's the problem right there...

The thing I hate most is the dead air. But I've also noticed that the method of flipping through books invariably seems to result in bands gravitating to a collection of maybe 30-40 standards that have absolutely been overplayed to death.

One of my weapons is knowing heads. If there is too much dead air, I simply start playing the melody to a standard, and let the band come in after the first chorus.

 

[Richland123]

That's cool, but do you ever hire subs?

No. We are a 3 piece band and have had the same 3 guys for 11 years.

 

[bluewine]

That's one of the worst things that a band can do, yet I see people (musicians) all the time who seem to think it's OK.

For me, it's not ok, however my band does it.

Sometimes the vibe of the room and what's happening with the crowd at any given point in time is not a match for that next song on the set list.

Blue

 

[JohnMCA72]

For me, it's not ok, however my band does it.

Sometimes the vibe of the room and what's happening with the crowd at any given point in time is not a match for that next song on the set list.

Blue

Standing around, debating the next song choice or commenting on the previous one, is never good.

The way to make "calling audibles" work is to have a BL who is decisive & can make the call quickly, & the rest of the band paying close attention, ready to play whatever is called without question or comment.

 

[bluewine]

Standing around, debating the next song choice or commenting on the previous one, is never good.

The way to make "calling audibles" work is to have a BL who is decisive & can make the call quickly, & the rest of the band paying close attention, ready to play whatever is called without question or comment.

Agreed, just make sure the BL calls it quick and loud enough so that us older guys can hear it.

Blue

 

[Marko 1]

Last band I was in, the “BL” guitard wouldn’t stick with the setlist HE set up; lucky to get the first two in the first set before it started changing.

Worst of all, he’d regularly start a song without saying what it was, and damn, so many of those Country tunes sound the same to me, and those where I was supposed to start with him definitely didn’t sound familiar. Then the idiot would shout out to me a key... I'm like, don't tell me the f'in key, tell me the name of the f'in song!

I just stopped sweating it and when I got there, I got there.

If/when he said something, usually that I should know what the song was, I simply told him that if he insisted on starting songs without me knowing what they were, he’s just taking his chances. When I did ask him why he did that he mentioned something about some “zone” guitarists get into.

I think part of it was that control freak in him where he enjoyed making others follow his instructions.

God I'm glad I'm rid of him.

 

[Mystic Michael]

Is it me or do musicians today have no clue...

Not only should all the songs in a show be well-rehearsed, but the show itself should be well-rehearsed. And that entails rehearsing the songs in order - including transitions, instruments changes, gear changes, setting adjustments - whatever is necessary to keep the show flowing along at brisk, yet steady pace.

No, you're not wrong. Fortunately, it's the dummies making chronic mistakes and showing chronic lack of professionalism who make it easier for those who have got it all together...

MM

 

[loopee]

I've just been approached by a local musician to fill in at a gig on Oct 27th....he plays original blues....I've played 3 of his songs with him at a jam last week and he liked what I did (I presume...since he contacted me to fill in).......I asked if he had a set list and some recorded music so I could at least familiarize myself with some of his songs...he says he's never recorded anything, has no set list and has never rehearsed in his entire career....."?????".....he says he'll just call out the keys before the song and call out the changes.....I'm to do a 3 set gig like this without knowing the songs or even the melody and (obviously) I'm supposed to read his mind...

I play bass because I love it.....I play with other musicians because I love it....I prefer being "rehearsed" before playing a gig....not only for my own pleasure of playing properly and growing a good reputation so I can find more work or a new band to play with but also to make the BL sound good....I'm trying to be professional but this gig is not going to be a pleasure to do.........I don't mind jamming but frankly I'm not a pro and I'm happy this gig is somewhere I'll probably never go again and no one (hopefully) knows me.......

Would you do it?

 

[Huge]

If his songs are common blues progressions and he calls the keys, I'd do it, and I'm no pro.

 

[lowfreq33]

I do gigs with no set list or song list quite a bit.

The Nashville number system is pretty handy.

Not necessarily very useful in a rock setting though.

 

[Marty Forrer]

I gotta disagree with many of the views here. I sub for a band of seasoned pros who have been together for a decade or more. The singer/rhythm guitarist has a HUGE repertoire (2000 songs) and will launch into the next song without telling the rest of us what it is, what key, anything. Now more than half of these songs are ones I've either never heard of or never played before. I get no rehearsal or setlists etc, so I have to wing it. I've become fairly adept at it, and I must do an OK job 'cos I'm the first-call sub. The band must be OK because they get plenty of work.
I also front my own blues/swing/jazz band and we have never rehearsed but we always get great feedback from the punters.
Consequently I have very little sympathy for people who whine about not having setlists, or rehearsals. Grow up.