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No set list, I'm not playing.

#81
Marty Forrer said:
I gotta disagree with many of the views here. I sub for a band of seasoned pros who have been together for a decade or more. The singer/rhythm guitarist has a HUGE repertoire (2000 songs) and will launch into the next song without telling the rest of us what it is, what key, anything. Now more than half of these songs are ones I've either never heard of or never played before. I get no rehearsal or setlists etc, so I have to wing it. I've become fairly adept at it, and I must do an OK job 'cos I'm the first-call sub. The band must be OK because they get plenty of work.
I also front my own blues/swing/jazz band and we have never rehearsed but we always get great feedback from the punters.
Consequently I have very little sympathy for people who whine about not having setlists, or rehearsals. Grow up.
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So, why are people who desire rehearsals and setlists wrong again?

Didn't quite follow your logic first time around.
 
#82
Marty Forrer said:
I gotta disagree with many of the views here. I sub for a band of seasoned pros who have been together for a decade or more. The singer/rhythm guitarist has a HUGE repertoire (2000 songs) and will launch into the next song without telling the rest of us what it is, what key, anything. Now more than half of these songs are ones I've either never heard of or never played before. I get no rehearsal or setlists etc, so I have to wing it. I've become fairly adept at it, and I must do an OK job 'cos I'm the first-call sub. The band must be OK because they get plenty of work.
I also front my own blues/swing/jazz band and we have never rehearsed but we always get great feedback from the punters.
Consequently I have very little sympathy for people who whine about not having setlists, or rehearsals. Grow up.
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2000 songs, really?

Any half decent bass player can follow blues and standard jazz changes. That ain't what I am talking about.

Bandleader this week has a song that is two chord groove. Simple. However it modulates a full step. Problem is that she never modulates at the same time. I found six different YouTube versions that had it all over the place. Better yet, when she sent the final set list it wasn't on it so neither I nor the guitar guy practiced it much nor bothered to ask much about it.

Comes the show, she throws it in in the middle of the set, and tells us she added a verse, oh, and just follow the drummer for the modulation.???????

Drummer didn't play any distinct changes. Guitar player stares at me. BL turns at one point and doesn't even give a clue. Song sucked, I watched the video today.

Set list is a must for great original band, and should also be for a good cover band.

As for the great reception by your bands audience, well, you are in a land on the opposite side of the planet. ;-)
 
#83
loopee said:
I've just been approached by a local musician to fill in at a gig on Oct 27th....he plays original blues....I've played 3 of his songs with him at a jam last week and he liked what I did (I presume...since he contacted me to fill in).......I asked if he had a set list and some recorded music so I could at least familiarize myself with some of his songs...he says he's never recorded anything, has no set list and has never rehearsed in his entire career....."?????".....he says he'll just call out the keys before the song and call out the changes.....I'm to do a 3 set gig like this without knowing the songs or even the melody and (obviously) I'm supposed to read his mind...
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Actually, that kind of gig can be a lot more fun than you might think - if you can just completely loosen up, and get in the right frame of mind for it.

Consider it a type of improv training. Challenge yourself to see how quickly you can make up a bassline on the spot that really grooves, and fits the key, the rhythm, and the tempo. If the bandleader can't provide you with anything more than the key signature and the chord changes, he can't exactly expect a virtuoso performance (though you personally might surprise yourself).

Of course, I would NEVER perform a gig in that manner - if MY NAME or the name of MY BAND was on the marquee... :ninja:

MM
 
#84
I have one band that is very by the book with setlists and my other band has never used one ever. I actually find having no setlist a little more fun because it keeps you on your toes and raises your level of playing. It feels like when I'm the house bass player for an open mic so I'm kind of used to it. I do bring my Ipad and have tons of standards on Igigbook just in case I am completely in the dark and need to find the song quickly.
 
#85
As you all know, i have a very different perspective. if you are in a "band" there should be no cheat sheets and no books or iPads. You either know the songs or not. That applies to cover and original. I remember in the late 70s and early '80s every cover band had to have three good sets of music ready and most had ALL of the newest hits or MTV hits learned every week. And zero books or cheat sheets. All had set lists. And everyone loved it. No "reading the crowd" just play the hits and dance tunes.

The best cover bands in NJ all use set lists and rehearse the songs in an order they will play them.

For the record I do not consider blues bands "bands" and especially the ones who just do general blues standards and call out changes. Can these gigs be fun? Yes. Does an audience want to hear it? Rarely.
 
#86
I have played in both situations.

For a bar with a small stage not having a set list works fine, as the singer will pickup the vibe of the crowd and adjust accordingly. Some communication is needed but nothing that'll make you look unprofessional or anything like that.

For a band that plays in large venues, it's better if you rehearse the entire show and even memorize it. The sequence is well thought out and you just follow a plan, maybe hour and half and you're done.

Bar gigs and concerts are not the same thing.
 
#87
I used to play with a guitarist that I swear knew more than 2000 songs. He knows all the Beatles, Steely Dan, etc. and could morph b/w songs and back into the original tune. I was always amazed at the number of tunes he knew.

Last night the gig had no set list but the tunes were drawn from our regular list . . . no problem. One couple gave $20 each in tips with a request that only the keyboardist knew. We played the tune. I don't remember what it was but it was by Little Feat. They were happy.

Mixing up the order of the tunes doesn't bother me.
 
#89
sleeplessknight said:
My band also has a setlist for every gig. In my experience, the "we gotta read the room, maaaaan" excuse for not using a setlist is complete horse-puckey. It's a laziness thing, pure and simple, and bands/bandleaders who subscribe to that philosophy are handicapping themselves in the eye of the audience. In today's world of iTunes playlists, customized internet radio, etc, the only place a listener EVER has more than a second or two between songs is when listening to live music performed by an ill-prepared band. The "hey, whadda you wanna play?" "I dunno, whadda YOU wanna play?" dead-air BS decreases the audience enjoyment of the performance, which in turn makes them less likely to want to come out and support live music over time. In short, roll your setlist at least a day or two before the gig, play the room, and if for some reason the audience isn't responding, then change your setlist for next time! Don't sit there and discuss the finer points of playing Sweet Child Of Mine vs. Starships next "to get the chicks on the flooooor, maaaaaan!" on stage, the time for that is when you're crafting the setlists in the first place.

:-D
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Yeah, this is how I feel.

The best song callers are hit and miss, generally speaking no better than how a solid set list plays out. And then there is the downside: dead air, bickering, people not being prepped for a tune. So I'd rather not.
 
#90
When I joined my current band almost 4 years ago, everyone took a turn vocally (5 singers) in rotation, around the stage who called the tune out when they were up next.

Fast forward a couple of years with a couple of personnel changes. I'm now preparing set lists ahead of time & have 5 different ones ready depending on the room & length of gig we're booked for. It's cut down the dead air time that was creeping in between songs and let's us develop a proper flow to our set, a mix of country & 60's style rock. We still take & play requests but generally don't deviate vary far from set list.

I occasionally sub for a Seniors Dance Club band where we have to go by their established dance program. The set list is submitted by the BL 2 days ahead. I write charts for any "new" songs I haven't played before at practice and then all charts are set up according to the set list. There is no deviation from the set list. The club actually has a ready board with dance style and song that is coming up.
 
#91
pasta4lnch said:
Master song lists I can see, but the crowd dictates what you should play next. . .
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THIS

My main band, at acoustic gigs, uses no set list. In full band gigs, we use them, but have "floater" songs that can be dropped in, depending on the crowd, and other situational variables.

Live band karaoke, by definition, does not use set lists, but master song lists, and sometimes, if the guest vocalist wants to do something not on the master list, but we know it, it will get played, especially if the guest can get the lyrics on a smart phone.

Playing covers is a job, like any other job; keep the boss happy, and the boss is the crowd.

With original material, I have always felt that this is the band's thing to have greater control over, but if your stuff is well-known, and you aim to please, sometimes deviation from the established order is necessary. Usually, in original situations, you know the material backwards and forwards, from rehearsing and developing it, beforehand, as opposed to the world of covers, where rehearsals can be rare.
 
#92
Someone please explain to me what "read the crowd" means.

I have never gone to a club where anyone in the crowd said, "Gee, I sure wish they payed 23 minutes more of Riders on the Storm. This band is way too exciting. Wish I could just sit here and be slow."
 
#93
TRichardsbass said:
Someone please explain to me what "read the crowd" means.

I have never gone to a club where anyone in the crowd said, "Gee, I sure wish they payed 23 minutes more of Riders on the Storm. This band is way too exciting. Wish I could just sit here and be slow."
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It means being able to see what the crowd is digging on any given night. I see it all the time in the college bars with cover bands. Typically, these bands have a pretty huge repertoire of music that ranges from modern country, to 90's alternative, to 80's hair and glam, etc... On some nights the crowd will respond really well to country and not so much to anything else, so it's up to the band to notice this trend and then focus more heavily on whatever country songs they know while disregarding any metal/hard rock songs they might have in their bag of tricks. *edit* It goes even further than that. You have to know how the crowd wants to feel at any point in a set. Sometimes you just need to keep pushing them harder and harder with more and more dance tunes, and sometimes people just want a good band to listen to in the background while they talk to the people at their table. It at times will even flip flop throughout the night. This is more or less what reading a crowd is about.

TBH, I'd think you of all people would know this :hiding:
 
#95
TRichardsbass said:
Someone please explain to me what "read the crowd" means.

I have never gone to a club where anyone in the crowd said, "Gee, I sure wish they payed 23 minutes more of Riders on the Storm. This band is way too exciting. Wish I could just sit here and be slow."
Click to expand...

In the band I play with, this is a standard practice. We go into a showcase set with a planned setlist. Most of the time we can stick to the plan. But the dynamics of the room, how the audience is responding, or even the sound can influence how you approach the rest of the set.

Sometimes the energy in the room is pretty strong, and a ballad may kill that vibe. You may notice that a string of uptempo numbers are starting to exhaust the audience. Or you may come across that instance where a song that's on the set list is too dark for that night's audience/venue.

As for a bandleader calling original tunes that they haven't given to the musicians at all, let alone rehearsed? That's much more difficult to defend. It's not like they're calling a standard or a classic rock tune that the band members are likely to know. But if a singer-songwriter has a significant catalog of songs that they may dip into without rehearsing the band? Then they should at least be providing charts for the band.
 
#96
Reading the crowd/driving to the conditions is sometimes necessary. But it's not the polar opposite of having a setlist. Whether or not a setlist is called for, and how flexible it is, depends on all sorts of factors. There's no use barricading yourself in a corner and defending your end of what seems to me to be a false dichotomy.
 
#97
It seems to me that the OP was talking primarily about subbing. If a cohesive band that never hires subs can "wing it" successfully, all the power to 'em. My only misgiving is that the choice of tunes is likely to be influenced by the bandleader getting tired or bored, and not by what is best for the performance. At least in the jazz world, bands that "wing it" tend to revert back to the same tired old standards that everybody is sick of.

When you hire a sub, no matter how good you think they are, then it makes sense to be more organized on stage, have charts, etc.

As for reading the crowd, I've been in situations where the band started out playing the wrong genre altogether, e.g., getting hired as a jazz combo and discovering that it's a rock & roll crowd. I've switched from jazz to rock in mid-set on occasion. Some bands can pull this off and some can't.
 
#98
I guess it's a matter of the band. Set lists are great tools, but they are - at least to me - merely a guid line. Even as a sub - granted I like to know what songs I'm supposed to know and I'll make my notes (if I need them) as small as possible so I can jump to any tune called. I do put on some sever panic if a tune is called I wasn't expecting, and don't know, but I don't think that's what we're talking about here.

I guess I can equate it to this: sticking to a set list CAN be like reading a chart to the T instead of using it as a reference, and listening to what's going on. I've played in bands who never deviate from the list they labored over. That's a mistake! And, just like burring your head in a chart, you skip a tune to get to a better suited one and all hell breaks loose - do we go back the the skipped song? Do we keep going? No one knows?

At least at a bar gig. If people are paying for a seat to see you etc - then things need to be a bit more planned/executed etc.

Frankly this is a YMMV thread. What works for you is what you should do! Personally I only posted because I couldn't believe what I was reading - if I get hired to play. Get a list of songs. I could care less if they are on a list or called out at will. If it's poorly communicated then it's the bands fault, not the method.
 
#99
I think this thread actually discovered why sooo many bands don't draw much and why they don't get paid much. Everyone seems to be trying to be and play all things to all people.

If you aren't focused on a particular style (country, current pop, classic rock, etc) then the audience will not know why to come see you. You risk having shows where you played strong country and the crowd loved you but when they came out to see you next you "read the crowd" and played mostly hair metal. So they decide that maybe you aren't the band for them.

I have seen this before a billion times, and most musicians are clueless. There is a band here called Psycho Daisy that does 70s two guitar rock. Think "My Woman from Tokyo" kind of tunes. And only stuff in that flavor. Pack the house wherever they play, and have a following. You know exactly what you are going to get.

I am known as the punk/pop guy. I did a show where I played all songs by the Bruce Springsteen Asbury Park scene. Some of my regulars were bewildered, as they figured I was gonna do a tribute show for a band like the Clash. I learned my lesson.
 

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