Nobody cares about your tone....

[BurningSkies]

Congratulations. You managed to show that you understand about zero wrt Jaco's playing and insult many of your bass playing brothers and sisters in three sentences.

FWIW, no one "sounds like Jaco," even when they try; reference the WOM recent recordings, if it matters at all to you.

Also, FWIW, I first picked up and played a Jazz bass with round wounds in 1974 before I had even heard of Jaco. The bridge pickup thing was at the time more well known from Chris Squire, among others. Saying that the Jazz Bass bridge pickup sound is "Jaco's" sounds to me like a Jeff Berlin piece of misinformation. And implying that said "sound," if used by current players, is "farty" may be your opinion, which you are welcome to; but, it is needlessly and pointlessly condescending; and further, you aren't even supporting your opinion with any examples.

Here is my less than stellar example of a "bridge pickup jazz sound." I think the sound works. But, perhaps you would have chosen to play it differently, which is great. But, I certainly would not have wasted space saying nasty things about your choices. Have a nice day.

A friend of mine has a good friend who I guess is hanging out with V. Wooten sometime in the next week or two...and he was telling me that he made the guy promise that he'd get Vic's autograph for me and that it was super important that he didn't forget. I thanked him, all the while thinking 'oh, ok...what the hell will I do with that?" Mostly because I don't really care about and am not a fan of Wooten, have never expressed interest, etc. The idea is nice, but you know, we don't all love the same players, genres, styles or tones. I also feel the same way about Jaco and a whole other pile of bass players. Of course I don't take it as an affront if people don't like or 'get' Flabba Holt's tone or Lloyd Brevett's tone, don't understand mine.

 

[bucephylus]

A friend of mine has a good friend who I guess is hanging out with V. Wooten sometime in the next week or two...and he was telling me that he made the guy promise that he'd get Vic's autograph for me and that it was super important that he didn't forget. I thanked him, all the while thinking 'oh, ok...what the hell will I do with that?" Mostly because I don't really care about and am not a fan of Wooten, have never expressed interest, etc. The idea is nice, but you know, we don't all love the same players, genres, styles or tones. I also feel the same way about Jaco and a whole other pile of bass players. Of course I don't take it as an affront if people don't like or 'get' Flabba Holt's tone or Lloyd Brevett's tone, don't understand mine.

Absolutely! Most of us get over aping known players early on. We end up going for sounds and tones that work on the gig for each of us as individuals. I'm always so pleased to hear other players doing things differently that work well.

 

[Baird6869]

Jaco would have been 25% better with a 5. But, indeed, he was 20% less good than he could have been had he used a 5.

Sorry, I'm better at math than I am at bass.

Sorry, 25% more gooder.

Sorry, I am not a rocket surgeon.

 

[Jared Lash]

First, EVERYONE cares a out your tone, the band, the audience, you......everybody.

I had learned long ago that no matter "your" tone when playing alone, riffing, practice...whatever, has zero to do with your tone live. Your tone live consists of 2 things, 1 your rig and 2 setting your tone to compliment and cut through the other instruments. If you play live with different musicians and bands often, your rig needs to be flexible and so does how you set it up.

In regards to the response of having the sound guy handing the bassist a DI.......hell no!!!! I didn't lug all my gear to be ran straight into a board. Toss that crap back at him and use your watts! I'd laugh if I was handed a DI, crank up the amps and let that sound tech work the house around my rig.

I have no isssue with guitarists who are fussy about their tone just so long as they understand that their tone is part of the mix. That's the key and I think part of what you were getting at. If everybody is spending their time getting their ideal bedroom tone to bring to the gig then I'm guessing the actual mix is going to be less than stellar. It's about finding the tone that makes everything work as a whole. I've played in bands (a ska punk band back in college immediately comes to mind) where I did not like my tone at all when it was soloed. But it worked fantastically in the mix.

But I think the OP is being a bit hyperbolic as obviously he does care about his tone. The real question is, how much of the effort and money spent chasing that ideal sound is really worth it in regards to the final product aka the live mix. You SHOULD be able to get a decent sound out of most halfway decent rigs. So is the extra expense justified? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not playing music for a living so I don't have to look at it as a cost/benefit analysis. I have an expensive rig - Baer Valkyrie with an ML212 and/or two ML112s. I love how I sound through it. But what I love most about it is that it sounds great set flat and doesn't have a noticeable baked in tone. So with the well chosen EQ points and semiparametric mids I can easily adjust for the room. Loving my tone and being able to adjust easily at gigs makes me happy and helps me be a better player. It makes my tone better and it makes the band sound better. So to me it is worth it.

Honestly, if you have a rig that can handle the room and nobody in the band complains about stage volume, I don't see what's so bad about letting the amp take over the room. Sure, it still has to be balanced with the rest of the band in the house, but it can be done because I've heard it be done. Sounds good to me. I could never do it in a big room but I'm no stranger to vocals-only PA's and my amps always sound quite good when they take care of the room.

There have only been two venues where I declined to go through the FOH system. One was a small club where my bass mix was just a muddy mess in soundcheck due to an inept sound guy and the other was a pretty well known place with a good FOH and a sound guy who knew his stuff but still for some weird reason absolutely refused to have my bass pedals going through his system. Very weird and I've never run into that since but it meant I had to carry a pretty big room with just my rig if I wanted my effects (which are a big part of the sound) to be heard.

 

[SJLee]

Good tone is important to me. I'm the one spending the hours rehearsing and playing out and if I don't like how I sound, that matters. I can't control if others can't hear the difference but my tone does matter to me.

 

[NKBassman]

Everyone has this idea in their head of what their perfect bass tone is, and some of us care to try and chase that ideal sound, and some don't. For me my tone is as much a part of my bass playing "identity" as the bass lines I play. It's just another way to express yourself that goes beyond the notes.

But it's situational as well. For instance, for my cover band I have some general idea of what type of tone works and what won't, and as long as the tone I settle on works for a broad range of songs then I'm happy. For my original band, there's a lot going on and I have flipped a lot of gear trying to find something that will sound natural in the mix and gel with the guitars, yet still present some original "identity" as well, something that sounds exactly the way I want it to. And hopefully someone will notice.

 

[blowinblue]

I don't care about tone, either. I only buy quality basses and gear to impress other Talkbass members.

M. M.

 

[Boom762]

I always feel that the important aspect of a good tone is that
a) it is not boomy and not "in the way" masking other instruments
b) it fills out where other instruments leave a hole - that's where you get heard.

There are a lot of systems out there with a very pleasing tone. What makes the difference is on how it fulfils the two criteria above.
With my setup (mostly Euphonic Audio amps and cabs)I find that I can play very loud and not be in the way, but also be very quiet and the bass can still be heard. With other setups it sometimes goes to the other extreme:
You are already too loud and mask other instruments but still can't hear what the bass is playing. So, while the sound may not matter as such, or not a lot of people pay attention to it, I think it does make a difference that with a good tone you are more likely to be heard. And if you are not heard, what matters then?
Oh, on the last two gigs in a row the sound engineers mentioned the great sound I get out of my G&L 2500 - "I did not have to do anything. Sounds great" So...some people pay attention.
That my NS design is an attention getter is sure, but it doe snot help if you can't back it up with a stellar sound.

your band sounds great man. It's rare to find a group with a singer who can sing that well and have each band member serving the song like that.

 

[Baird6869]

I absolutely care about my tone. That's why I highly recommend quality products that are proven under rigorous and controlled tests to ensure every bass sound great.

This one for an example.

 

[FretNoMore]

I'm getting one of those for each of my basses. I'll be sounding sooooooo good.

 

[BurningSkies]

I absolutely care about my tone. That's why I highly recommend quality products that are proven under rigorous and controlled tests to ensure every bass sound great.

This one for an example.

I'm getting 15 of these.

 

[ggunn]

I'm getting 15 of these.

I'm going to duct tape my bass to the side of my washing machine, put an unbalanced load in, and set it on "spin".

 

[BurningSkies]

I'm going to duct tape my bass to the side of my washing machine, put an unbalanced load in, and set it on "spin".

I'm less worried about the washing machine and more worried about you putting duct tape on your bass.

 

[Abull78]

I have no isssue with guitarists who are fussy about their tone just so long as they understand that their tone is part of the mix. That's the key and I think part of what you were getting at. If everybody is spending their time getting their ideal bedroom tone to bring to the gig then I'm guessing the actual mix is going to be less than stellar. It's about finding the tone that makes everything work as a whole. I've played in bands (a ska punk band back in college immediately comes to mind) where I did not like my tone at all when it was soloed. But it worked fantastically in the mix.

But I think the OP is being a bit hyperbolic as obviously he does care about his tone. The real question is, how much of the effort and money spent chasing that ideal sound is really worth it in regards to the final product aka the live mix. You SHOULD be able to get a decent sound out of most halfway decent rigs. So is the extra expense justified? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not playing music for a living so I don't have to look at it as a cost/benefit analysis. I have an expensive rig - Baer Valkyrie with an ML212 and/or two ML112s. I love how I sound through it. But what I love most about it is that it sounds great set flat and doesn't have a noticeable baked in tone. So with the well chosen EQ points and semiparametric mids I can easily adjust for the room. Loving my tone and being able to adjust easily at gigs makes me happy and helps me be a better player. It makes my tone better and it makes the band sound better. So to me it is worth it.



There have only been two venues where I declined to go through the FOH system. One was a small club where my bass mix was just a muddy mess in soundcheck due to an inept sound guy and the other was a pretty well known place with a good FOH and a sound guy who knew his stuff but still for some weird reason absolutely refused to have my bass pedals going through his system. Very weird and I've never run into that since but it meant I had to carry a pretty big room with just my rig if I wanted my effects (which are a big part of the sound) to be heard.

Exactly what I was trying to state, thank you. I for one will spend till the cows come home. Currently working with a guy that makes handmade coils that will pump out 8.8vdc and designed specifically for best response at a select hz range and tonality. My biggest and most constant expenditures are on cabs. I love them and how they can tailor your tone. Also I just love a huge wall of speakers.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Congratulations. You managed to show that you understand about zero wrt Jaco's playing and insult many of your bass playing brothers and sisters in three sentences.

FWIW, no one "sounds like Jaco," even when they try; reference the WOM recent recordings, if it matters at all to you.

Also, FWIW, I first picked up and played a Jazz bass with round wounds in 1974 before I had even heard of Jaco. The bridge pickup thing was at the time more well known from Chris Squire, among others. Saying that the Jazz Bass bridge pickup sound is "Jaco's" sounds to me like a Jeff Berlin piece of misinformation. And implying that said "sound," if used by current players, is "farty" may be your opinion, which you are welcome to; but, it is needlessly and pointlessly condescending; and further, you aren't even supporting your opinion with any examples.

Here is my less than stellar example of a "bridge pickup jazz sound." I think the sound works. But, perhaps you would have chosen to play it differently, which is great. But, I certainly would not have wasted space saying nasty things about your choices. Have a nice day.

Well, if I can offend that many with that statement, then I'm probably more right then wrong. IMHO. And your video is great, and you do sound great in that mix, however, you are correct, that would not be the tone I use, for this or for anything else. But that is not an insult, just that I have a more distinct sound from me and my gear.However you do make the OP's point, even with "your tone" I am pretty sure the crowd didn't notice your solo bridge pickup technique.

This is a great example of what I hear from most of my jazz playing friends.



I love Federico, he is an amazing human and a killer player. And I love his personal bass (well, I'm just partial to basses that are different and are headless). But if you listen to the first loop, he gets a very Fender J bridge pickup/Jaco sound. That touch of 'fart" if you will. some of that is the bass, some of that is the player. But the influence of Jaco in the tone is unmistakeable.

As for knowing Jaco's anything, I actually did get to know Jaco for a short while in the early '80s here in NYC. Interesting character, but actually not all hung up on "tone". For Jaco it was personal expression through the instrument, and, but of course, by then he had settled in on how he played his basses, aka, the Jaco fart sound, his tone.

Here it is on a fretted bass. Sounds like Jaco.



And here is Tal, with Jeff Beck. You can hear the Jaco in the solo for sure.



However, I digress. Call me Jeff Berlin Jr. No one can BE Jaco, but many have and do emulate his "tone". And I challenge you to go to any regular jazz club and tell me that most of the time they all sound basically the same and have the same "tone". And it is in tribute, as it is one of the most studied, followed techniques and sounds in the history of bass. But to deny that a lot of guys dial in their "tone" and its a slight variant of Jaco's, well, to me is disingenuous.

I am sure I sound like some of my influences, given that I spent way too many nights playing punk in NYC in the late '70s. And there are times I think Mike Dirnt of Green Day and I sounded the same. However, to me its all about not being a thuddy mess and being able to have a distinct groove. Call it what you will, that is it to me. The rest of the subtle nuance of tone is reserved for recording. Which even then only other bassists will care, if at all. I do love that I can tell when its a Rick or some other specific bass, but past that, nah.

Wow, did I ramble. Back to my hole....

 

[ggunn]

Exactly what I was trying to state, thank you. I for one will spend till the cows come home. Currently working with a guy that makes handmade coils that will pump out 8.8vdc

If you are talking about pickup coils you must mean VAC, but I don't see how that could either be true or useful. From this chart

http://www.minicircuits.com/pages/pdfs/dg03-110.pdf

8V is +31dB. Possibly I am mistaken, butI don't see how a pickup could generate a 31dB signal or what you could do with it.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Here is a definite recording with the Rickenbacker. Maybe has a touch of Rick growl in it.



This one is clearly the Fender P bass.

Simonon has a distinct "style", but not tone.

But not the "Jaco sound." Just for comparison.

 

[nostatic]

thuddy mess and being able to have a distinct groove

I think that Thuddy Mess is playing right before Distinct Groove at Coachella this year. The new album "Being Able" is a must have...

 

[bucephylus]

Well, if I can offend that many with that statement, then I'm probably more right then wrong. IMHO. And your video is great, and you do sound great in that mix, however, you are correct, that would not be the tone I use, for this or for anything else. But that is not an insult, just that I have a more distinct sound from me and my gear.However you do make the OP's point, even with "your tone" I am pretty sure the crowd didn't notice your solo bridge pickup technique.

...

Nice post, Tom. See, of your clips, I would say Jaco sounds like Jaco. I would never in a million years mistake either of the others. So, to me, there is a lot more going on in the sound than just the tone coming off a bridge pup.

OTOH, your post also displays how we each conceive of tone in a different way. And that's a good thing. Essential.

 

[tonemachine]

Well, if I can offend that many with that statement, then I'm probably more right then wrong. IMHO. And your video is great, and you do sound great in that mix, however, you are correct, that would not be the tone I use, for this or for anything else. But that is not an insult, just that I have a more distinct sound from me and my gear.However you do make the OP's point, even with "your tone" I am pretty sure the crowd didn't notice your solo bridge pickup technique.

This is a great example of what I hear from most of my jazz playing friends.



I love Federico, he is an amazing human and a killer player. And I love his personal bass (well, I'm just partial to basses that are different and are headless). But if you listen to the first loop, he gets a very Fender J bridge pickup/Jaco sound. That touch of 'fart" if you will. some of that is the bass, some of that is the player. But the influence of Jaco in the tone is unmistakeable.

As for knowing Jaco's anything, I actually did get to know Jaco for a short while in the early '80s here in NYC. Interesting character, but actually not all hung up on "tone". For Jaco it was personal expression through the instrument, and, but of course, by then he had settled in on how he played his basses, aka, the Jaco fart sound, his tone.

Here it is on a fretted bass. Sounds like Jaco.



And here is Tal, with Jeff Beck. You can hear the Jaco in the solo for sure.



However, I digress. Call me Jeff Berlin Jr. No one can BE Jaco, but many have and do emulate his "tone". And I challenge you to go to any regular jazz club and tell me that most of the time they all sound basically the same and have the same "tone". And it is in tribute, as it is one of the most studied, followed techniques and sounds in the history of bass. But to deny that a lot of guys dial in their "tone" and its a slight variant of Jaco's, well, to me is disingenuous.

I am sure I sound like some of my influences, given that I spent way too many nights playing punk in NYC in the late '70s. And there are times I think Mike Dirnt of Green Day and I sounded the same. However, to me its all about not being a thuddy mess and being able to have a distinct groove. Call it what you will, that is it to me. The rest of the subtle nuance of tone is reserved for recording. Which even then only other bassists will care, if at all. I do love that I can tell when its a Rick or some other specific bass, but past that, nah.

Wow, did I ramble. Back to my hole....

Did Jaco invent his tone? Did nobody get that tone out of jazz bass before him? That would seem impossible now that "every jazz guy" can get his tone. Just replying to your post coincidentally, anyone can answer.