Noisy and distorted Tweeter in 2-10 cab

[ddezz]

I have 2 Avatar 2-10 cabs and both have tweeters that have a high pitched electrical noise. I replaced the drivers and it is still bad. I hate the sound of tweeters anyway and was wondering if anyone has replaced them with a 3" speaker like an Eminence Alpha 3? I have a Greenboy fearful cab with a 15 and an Alpha 6a and no tweeter in it and it is wonderful. My other option is to disconnect the white wire on the tweeters to silence them. The cab has Eminence Deltalite 10" neo speaker rated at 250 rms each and they seem fine. So any assistance what to replace these nasty tweeters with tiny cone speakers is appreciated

 

[agedhorse]

If you are hearing noise like that from the tweeters, it's not the tweeters that are bad. They are simply reproducing noise that's being picked up or generated earlier in the signal path.

 

[ddezz]

If you are hearing noise like that from the tweeters, it's not the tweeters that are bad. They are simply reproducing noise that's being picked up or generated earlier in the signal path.

 

[ddezz]

Thanks for your response. I have Greenboy Fearless cabs and they don't make the noise and with the Avatars they make the noise. Using a Genzler Magellen 800 and same cables. I'm going to disconnect the tweeter and see what happens.

 

[agedhorse]

Thanks for your response. I have Greenboy Fearless cabs and they don't make the noise and with the Avatars they make the noise. Using a Genzler Magellen 800 and same cables. I'm going to disconnect the tweeter and see what happens.

Be sure you disconnect the crossover from the input signal, some crossovers are resonant enough without the tweeter in place to trigger the protection circuits on some power amps (or damage the amp if they don't contain the necessary protection).

 

[mmbongo]

Thanks for your response. I have Greenboy Fearless cabs and they don't make the noise and with the Avatars they make the noise. Using a Genzler Magellen 800 and same cables. I'm going to disconnect the tweeter and see what happens.

You said those cabs don't have tweeters though. The noise is probably still there, those cabs just can't reproduce it.

 

[ddezz]

You said those cabs don't have tweeters though. The noise is probably still there, those cabs just can't reproduce it.

I said my Greenboy fearful cab does not have a tweeter. My 2 Avatar 2-10's do have tweeters that are giving me noise. Meanwhile, called Dave at Avatar and discussed the problem. He said I could simply disconnect the white wire to the tweeter with no adverse effects. I just did that and will soon be trying the cab to see if the noise goes away. Stay tuned!

 

[agedhorse]

I don’t recommend doing that, but I also design amps and am aware of undamped resonant loads.

It may not be an issue, but as we have troubleshot this issue with some TB players here on the forum, it can be. It’s not “best practice” IME.

This is also an example of why some designers include such extensive protection circuits in their power amp designs. We have no control over what people may attempt to do with their gear out in the real world.

 

[mmbongo]

I said my Greenboy fearful cab does not have a tweeter. My 2 Avatar 2-10's do have tweeters that are giving me noise. Meanwhile, called Dave at Avatar and discussed the problem. He said I could simply disconnect the white wire to the tweeter with no adverse effects. I just did that and will soon be trying the cab to see if the noise goes away. Stay tuned!

That's what I meant. Whatever cab that does NOT have a tweeter simply cannot reproduce those frequencies. Whatever cabs DO have a tweeter can reproduce those frequencies. Point being, disconnecting the tweeter is like putting tape over your check engine light. Sure you no longer see the light, but you didn't fix the problem.

 

[agedhorse]

It would be safer putting tape over the tweeter than disconnecting it too.

 

[shoot-r]

I have 2 Avatar 2-10 cabs and both have tweeters that have a high pitched electrical noise. I replaced the drivers and it is still bad. I hate the sound of tweeters anyway and was wondering if anyone has replaced them with a 3" speaker like an Eminence Alpha 3? I have a Greenboy fearful cab with a 15 and an Alpha 6a and no tweeter in it and it is wonderful. My other option is to disconnect the white wire on the tweeters to silence them. The cab has Eminence Deltalite 10" neo speaker rated at 250 rms each and they seem fine. So any assistance what to replace these nasty tweeters with tiny cone speakers is appreciated

I also gig with two Avatar 210 Neo cabinets.
They've been in use in a working band since 2008.

I also find the Foster/Fostex horn, (w/Eminence x-over???), noisy/shrilly when used in a quiet setting.
(I personally think the shrillyness has more to do with the x-over that is used than the Foster horn.)

On a live stage the shrillness is masked by the other instruments just as it is with "any" manufacturers horn/tweeter.

8 or 9 years ago (while using a single 210 cab at a job) I burnt out the horn's diaphragm.
My ears liked the sound so much better with no horn that I took out the burnt diaphragm, left the plastic horn/mouth, plugged the hole where the diaphragm mated with the horn, secured the internal wiring, and never looked back!

There's still plenty of highs that cut in the live mix (for me) just minus that shrillness in the quieter stage settings.

Additionally, removing the diaphragm probably cut 2 to 3 lbs. from the cabs weight.

Since removing the diaphragm I've driven those cabinets with Mesa M-6 Carbines, G.K. MB500's, and at present a Mesa Subway 800+ with NO ill effects.

 

[Redbrangus]

8 or 9 years ago (while using a single 210 cab at a job) I burnt out the horn's diaphragm.
My ears liked the sound so much better with no horn that I took out the burnt diaphragm, left the plastic horn/mouth, plugged the hole where the diaphragm mated with the horn, secured the internal wiring, and never looked back!

Additionally, removing the diaphragm probably cut 2 to 3 lbs. from the cabs weight.

Just to clarify, you probably DID burn out the diaphragm, but the diaphragm itself weighs only an ounce or two. You took the whole high-frequency compression driver off of the horn, a move I support whole-heartedly since you plugged up the throat of the horn and secured the wiring.

For my own taste, a poorly-executed HF driver/crossover design is much worse than not having one at all.

 

[sawzalot]

It sounds like the tweeter is just reproducing sounds that are already there. You don't hear them in the tweeterless cabs because those frequencies aren't being reproduced. The fact that you like the sound of the tweeterless cabs better is a happy accident, and fixes the symptom, but something upstream is still producing those sounds.

 

[shoot-r]

Just to clarify, you probably DID burn out the diaphragm, but the diaphragm itself weighs only an ounce or two. You took the whole high-frequency compression driver off of the horn, a move I support whole-heartedly since you plugged up the throat of the horn and secured the wiring.

For my own taste, a poorly-executed HF driver/crossover design is much worse than not having one at all.

+1!

Yes sir, the whole high frequency compression driver unit (I didn't know what to call it) is long gone and not really missed.

I know some manufacturer's that also use the Foster/Fostex horn, Eminence x-over combination (Ampeg, Roland, Eden, SWR, ect., ect., ect.) can sound pretty smooth and decently well behaved.

Avatar's cabinet construction is heavy duty old school, every bit as good as the other commercially available manufacturers.
Their LF drivers are as good as, and even better than alot of what is used in most commercially built cabs.

Where I feel the ball was dropped and the manufacturing costs where kept down was in the choice of, and quality of, the x-over that was used.

If Avatar would correct this short coming I don't think they could be beat on the commerical market in the value to cost to sound side of things.

 

[JimChjones]

He said I could simply disconnect the white wire to the tweeter with no adverse effects.

Thing is, if the most experienced pro amp designer on the forum tells you there can be bad effects on the amp from leaving the crossover connected it's as well to listen. There isn't actually a downside to removing the crossover from the circuit completely.

 

[ddezz]

Thing is, if the most experienced pro amp designer on the forum tells you there can be bad effects on the amp from leaving the crossover connected it's as well to listen. There isn't actually a downside to removing the crossover from the circuit completely.

Point well taken, Jim. I have disconnected the tweeter for now and will try it soon. If the hottible crackling is gone, I may just remove the crossover and rewire the cab or look into 3 1/2 cone speakers to replace the tweeter with which may be less harsh. The newer Genzler cabs are using small cone speakers. Parts Express has a good selection of neo and ferrite magnet 3 1/2's which should be a drop in replacement for the tweeter.

 

[Analogeezer]

My Carvin 2 x 10" cabinets have some sort of variation of the Foster horns; not sure if they are the real deal but certainly look like them.

These cabinets have a crossover with a continually adjustable tweeter level, I tend to run them at about 11 o'clock and like the sound. They do get harsh if you jack the level up more, but they are zingy and sound good with the woofers at less than 50% up.

These cabinets also have the "light bulb" protection circuits for the horns which were all the rage in the late 90's and 2000's but I have heard that method has fallen out of favor.

But it sounds like you have found a solution and are pursuing another one (a cone driver).

Analogeezer

 

[shoot-r]

Point well taken, Jim. I have disconnected the tweeter for now and will try it soon. If the hottible crackling is gone, I may just remove the crossover and rewire the cab or look into 3 1/2 cone speakers to replace the tweeter with which may be less harsh. The newer Genzler cabs are using small cone speakers. Parts Express has a good selection of neo and ferrite magnet 3 1/2's which should be a drop in replacement for the tweeter.

I'll be following your experiment.
Please let us know how it turns out.

 

[LoveThatBass]

I had Avatar cabs years ago Prior to 2008. Foster horns are garbage. If you listen to them with speakers disconnected they are distorted and not musical at all. I tried in vain to get Dave at Avatar to put better horns heavier duty Lpads and 18 db High pass filters. he did change to a 12db slope from a 6db. When I had a small at home business in 2005 I put together an 18db Linkwitz Rielly high pass filter so the Foster Horn could be driven at lower frequency than 3500hz without damaging the horn . I used 50 and 100 watt Lpads also

 

[agedhorse]

I had Avatar cabs years ago Prior to 2008. Foster horns are garbage. If you listen to them with speakers disconnected they are distorted and not musical at all. I tried in vain to get Dave at Avatar to put better horns heavier duty Lpads and 18 db High pass filters. he did change to a 12db slope from a 6db. When I had a small at home business in 2005 I put together an 18db Linkwitz Rielly high pass filter so the Foster Horn could be driven at lower frequency than 3500hz without damaging the horn . I used 50 and 100 watt Lpads also

Properly used, there is no problem with Foster drivers at all. 18dB/octave crossovers are not necessary either with a properly designed speaker system.

The majority of issues result from poor application of the HF drivers with the rest of the system. Just slapping a tweeter in a box without doing the rest of the work results in poor results.