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Double Bass Non-spruce soundposts?

robobass

robobass

Aug 1, 2005
3,546
1,421
Cologne, Germany
www.basscapos.com
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Private Inventor - Bass Capos
#1
james condino said:
...
As long as you are experimenting, don't forget to add a carbon fiber post to your list. I've tried about a dozen different types of wood and my current favorite on my carved bass is a thin walled oversized carbon fiber soundpost. Every time I switch back to the spruce one, it only lasts a few minutes and the carbon goes back in!
j.
www.condino.com
www.kaybassrepair.com
Click to expand...

This a brand new concept for me. Is this something that classical bassists are also doing? My Pfretzchner is a bit flabby on the bottom after a major top overhaul, so I'm wondering if CF or birch or something would be worth exploring. I know my repairman won't be happy if I ask him to fit a CF post, however.
 
#2
I experimented with a solid (16mm) CF sound post for a while; whilst I think there were some improvements in terms of note tautness and response, I also discovered that the hardness of the carbon fibre meant that the sound post was more likely to dent the belly and back of the bass if the fit was not *absolutely* perfect (which itself is hard to achieve, let alone when searching for a new 'correct' position, with respect to the bass' response to the new material), which in time would result in a worsening fit. Eventually I changed back to the spruce post. Interestingly, my experiments with endpin materials yielded similar sound/response results but without similar concerns.
 
#5
wow that's pretty strong language to describe someone who just has a different opinion to your own.

I didn't say that carbon fibre some posts didn't work, I wrote that in my opinion and experience, other adjustments usually yield more tangible results than sound post material. And jested that I really didn't want to muck around with CF posts myself.

in my opinion, if CF posts were really consistently and significantly an improvement over wood, then luthiers all over the place would be fitting them regularly by now. We have after all had the technology for at least two to three years now. But I don't see a massive takeup.
 
#6
My query wasn't specifically about CF. Notice "Non-Spruce" in the title? But, there is one poster here who endorses CF for SPs, and he is seemingly a very qualified luthier whose comments always make good sense to me. The issue of the difficulties of fitting a CF post of course needs to be considered. Perhaps spruce endcaps would be in order. I agree that other adjustments also need to be considered. I haven't had the bass back to the shop since the rebuild, as the bass works pretty well as is, and my other bass is away waiting for some cosmetic work which never seems to get started. I have to say that it can be a bad idea to make friends with your luthier, mechanic, or web guy. You barter and get friend prices, but the job always seems to get pushed onto the back burner!
 
#7
basses and their components are traditionally made from spruce and maple and ebony for good reason - they were once all readily available reasonably priced, fit for purpose - and nice to work with.

although we know that a lot of other materials work, this last point is IMO not be underestimated.

So, unless I'm getting a huge tangible benefit, putting spruce tips on every sound post I install, or buying blanks off-the-shelf - if that was even an option - is really not a time and cost-effective solution for a client who usually wants a quick and effective fix.

experimenting on one's own bass is one thing, and sure, i experiment all the time, in my own time, but it's rare that I make such a eureka discovery that changes my ways for good. (but it does happen)

I love ingenious minds - so perhaps someone can come up with a neat and cheap way of using carbon fibre or titanium or bamboo or acrylic - or a banana for that matter - that makes fitting simple and doesn't waste costly materials if you trim too much off or just need to move the post back towards the centre again?

then we'd be talking with gas. I think.
 
#8
Matthew,
I wholeheartedly agree! Read the last sentence of my first post. I wouldn't expect a luthier to just jump in and fit me a CF post and expect similar cost or turnaround time. And, I wouldn't hold it against him if he simply said no. I simply say no if people ask me to work in stainless steel. I'm not qualified, and don't have the tooling for it. I send them on their way. I also try to avoid CF. But, if the material has benefits, then it's worth exploring. BTW, has anyone tried a SS tube for a soundpost?:)
 
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#12
Wow! It wasn't until the second reading that I understood your point. OK. I'm ready to drop this idea. But...still... it's hard for me to absorb the idea that a hardwood or CF post would sound almost the same as a spruce one given the same fit, position, length, etc.
 
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#13
robobass said:
Wow! It wasn't until the second reading that I understood your point. OK. I'm ready to drop this idea. But...still... it's hard for me to absorb the idea that a hardwood or CF post would sound almost the same as a spruce one given the same fit, position, length, etc.
Click to expand...
Research has shown that the soundpost is little more than the provider of a pivot or stiffening point. It also has a piston-like effect on the body of a bass. I'm not saying there is no sound difference between soundposts of different materials, but that other factors are way more important. I do think the weight of the post may have a small effect because it changes the overall mass of the instrument. But my experiments with different density soundposts were invariably disappointing, as the results were not audible.
 
#14
I conjecture that the compression properties of the material play the most important role in a soundpost. While spruce is lighter and more bendable than CF or hardwoods, it probably has a stiffness along the grain which is up there with them, or at least the difference is insignificant for this application. Also, since it is much lighter, any gains in stiffness over spruce might be lost by added mass. Also, there is the "springiness" of spruce, which is no doubt why it was chosen in the first place. Thanks for setting things straight!
 
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