Nordstrand Big Rig /51J

[Antreoo]

Hi everybody,
I used to have an account here but forgot username and password so here I am again

My main bass is a MIJ 51 Precision strung with chromes flats and I am absolutely in love with the sound of it, but I needed another bass as a cheap backup/for alternative tunings so I recently snatched a Harley Benton JB75 with the idea was to turn it into an "updated" version of the 51P, with a slimmer neck and more tonal options.

As far as the controls go, I'd keep it passive with master volume, 3 way switch and tone, with a pushpull for series/parallel.

Now it comes the hard part of selecting the pickup, I did some research on here and came up with some pairing options. I'd like to hear some feedback from anyone with previous experience on these pairings before pulling the trigger:

1. Easy way:
a set of Nordstrand split 51J (51j4s)
Will the bridge PU sound unusable/too thin on it's own?

2. More tricky due to routing:
Nordstrand 51J4S + BigRig
How will they match?

Routing for a BigRig in neck position is "safer" due to the pickguard but I feel it would not be balanced with a 51J in the bridge, so 51J for the neck and Bigrig (internally in series) in the bridge.

I'm not too worried about ruining the finishing/aestethic aspect, but do you feel like the extra hassle of routing will be worth it?

Thank you for your time and help, any piece of advice or other suggestions will be highly appreciated

 

[manchego_eggo]

you could try a dimarzio ultra jazz bridge pup since those are known to be some of the highest output jazz pupz

 

[Antreoo]

you could try a dimarzio ultra jazz bridge pup since those are known to be some of the highest output jazz pupz

Thank you for the reply! I'm not really a fan of the classic Jazz Bass tone so maybe the ultrajazz isn't for me.
Speaking of Dimarzio tho, I thought of pairing a model J in the bridge with the 51J at the neck.
How would you reckon they match?
Maybe a set of 51J would be more balanced.

 

[manchego_eggo]

Thank you for the reply! I'm not really a fan of the classic Jazz Bass tone so maybe the ultrajazz isn't for me.
Speaking of Dimarzio tho, I thought of pairing a model J in the bridge with the 51J at the neck.
How would you reckon they match?
Maybe a set of 51J would be more balanced.

model Js are pretty high output so I imagine it would balance well. IMO the model Js sound more like humbuckers the jazz pups which would be good for you and theres plenty of demos on youtube. I havent played the 51J and there arent a lot of demos online unfortunately.

 

[sikamikanico]

I don’t have experience with these, but I would for sure start with a set of 51s. They’re designed to work together. And they will visually look well together.

The neck pickup is of course a known quantity, it’s simply the split version of the SCPB pickup. There are demos out there. One minor difference might be that J neck pickup is usually a tad closer to the bridge, but that doesn’t matter that much in the neck position.

the bridge pickup is a gamble either way. I see bridge pickups primarily as a way to change the neck pickup sound, and usually either use both or just the neck pickup. I imagine the 51J would work well for that, but I’m not sure how it would sound solo - tho it could sound great.

If you start with 51Js and don’t like something, you can go from there… there are plenty other bridge pickups you could try, as discussed already… big rig (or other soapbars) may be an option, tho you could try it in the neck position and run it in parallel…

or, you could request 51Js with a series/parallel option, so you could try a few different wiring options…

oh, and ask folks at Nordstrand, chances are they have tried or heard reports of people trying many of these combos!

 

[Antreoo]

Thank you both for your advices

As manchego_eggo stated previously stated unfortunately there aren't a lot of demos of the 51Js, but i checked some of the 51split which is basically the same PU in a different shell.

For the neck a 51J should be fine for me, I doubt I could spot the differences of PU positioning in a band mix. As a bonus point in the J neck position I will get the 4th / 9th fret harmonics

the bridge pickup is a gamble either way. I see bridge pickups primarily as a way to change the neck pickup sound, and usually either use both or just the neck picku

Totally agree with you, in the end I'm used to just 1 pickup and I see myself using mostly the neck pickup or both together (switching between series/parallel) and this already gives me waaay many more options than the 51P, without hum.

So maybe the bigrig, while definitely cool it theory, might be a bit of an overkill for my needs (routing etc...)

Do you happen to know how are the 51Js wired "internally"? I couldn't figure it out from Nordstrand's site.

 

[Dynacord]

Similar to the Model J, I really like the Nordstrand NJ4SE bridge pickup. Fatter than a regular J pickup but really good to my tastes (replaced DiMarzio UltraJazz in that bass - sounded good but generic to me and A and D were noticably weak compared to E and G - got the Nordstrands with radiused polepieces).

 

[sikamikanico]

Thank you both for your advices

As manchego_eggo stated previously stated unfortunately there aren't a lot of demos of the 51Js, but i checked some of the 51split which is basically the same PU in a different shell.

For the neck a 51J should be fine for me, I doubt I could spot the differences of PU positioning in a band mix. As a bonus point in the J neck position I will get the 4th / 9th fret harmonics



Totally agree with you, in the end I'm used to just 1 pickup and I see myself using mostly the neck pickup or both together (switching between series/parallel) and this already gives me waaay many more options than the 51P, without hum.

So maybe the bigrig, while definitely cool it theory, might be a bit of an overkill for my needs (routing etc...)

Do you happen to know how are the 51Js wired "internally"? I couldn't figure it out from Nordstrand's site.

Split coils are usually wired in series, unless requested otherwise. Some come with separate wires for series/parallel, but that’s more typical for P pickups (Wilde, Model P).

 

[Gizmot]

The Nordstrand pickups are fantastic- you’ll be happy with any of them. Besides the sound quality the build quality is outstanding too.

 

[RJC1811]

I have Nordstrand pickups in the bass I just built. I have a 51P hum cancelling in the neck position and the Big Rig in the bridge. It’s passive, I have a 4 way blade switch, volume and tone. I used 250K pots and a .047 cap. I’m still dialing it in so tweaking as I go. They sound beautiful when dialed in right with good balance between them. They can be a little boomy at certain settings. I may try 500K pots but need to get some other opinions. Great pickups.
More info on all of it here. https://www.talkbass.com/threads/winter-build-off-2021-late-entry.1640662/

 

[DDawg]

I really like the BigRigs. I paired a BigRig in the neck position with a Fender Super 55 Jazz in the bridge position for my homemade Tele bass, and it works great. The pickup placement/string spacing is critical for the BigRig. I would recommend having series-parallel switching for the two coils of the BigRig. The BigRig balances best with the Jazz pickup when it's coils are in parallel mode. When switched to series, it's more like a P-pickup and balances with the Jazz pickup similar to most PJ basses. I've also done the reverse with a BigRig in the bridge position and P-pickup in the neck position, where it balances better in series mode.
This Tele bass has individual volumes and a tone control using 3 push-pull pots for series-parallel switching for the BigRig coils, series-parallel switching for combining the pickups, and switching for an inline RIC style capacitor on the bridge Jazz pickup, so there's a lot of tonal versatility.

 

[eddododo]

Hi everybody,
I used to have an account here but forgot username and password so here I am again

My main bass is a MIJ 51 Precision strung with chromes flats and I am absolutely in love with the sound of it, but I needed another bass as a cheap backup/for alternative tunings so I recently snatched a Harley Benton JB75 with the idea was to turn it into an "updated" version of the 51P, with a slimmer neck and more tonal options.

As far as the controls go, I'd keep it passive with master volume, 3 way switch and tone, with a pushpull for series/parallel.

Now it comes the hard part of selecting the pickup, I did some research on here and came up with some pairing options. I'd like to hear some feedback from anyone with previous experience on these pairings before pulling the trigger:

1. Easy way:
a set of Nordstrand split 51J (51j4s)
Will the bridge PU sound unusable/too thin on it's own?

2. More tricky due to routing:
Nordstrand 51J4S + BigRig
How will they match?

Routing for a BigRig in neck position is "safer" due to the pickguard but I feel it would not be balanced with a 51J in the bridge, so 51J for the neck and Bigrig (internally in series) in the bridge.

I'm not too worried about ruining the finishing/aestethic aspect, but do you feel like the extra hassle of routing will be worth it?

Thank you for your time and help, any piece of advice or other suggestions will be highly appreciated

So step one- send Nordstrand an email asking them these same things- they are GREAT at helping you curate a tone, and will let you know if something may not pair well..

that said- i will always suggest a Bigrig for any and everything- it’s an amazing pickup

 

[5StringPocket]

I have a Sadowsky P bass with a BigRig bridge pickup in series and the tone is just killer - excellent match. I also have a G&L Kiloton with a BigRig neck pickup which adds another dimension to the bass. Comments in Post#11 agree with my experience and provide some good suggestions for making a versatile custom bass.

 

[Antreoo]

Thanks for all the inputs, those are some very interesting and unique builds!

I have a 51P hum cancelling in the neck position and the Big Rig in the bridge. It’s passive, I have a 4 way blade switch, volume and tone.

This is basically what I had in mind, got any clips by chance?

The BigRig balances best with the Jazz pickup when it's coils are in parallel mode. When switched to series, it's more like a P-pickup and balances with the Jazz pickup similar to most PJ basses. I've also done the reverse with a BigRig in the bridge position and P-pickup in the neck position, where it balances better in series mode.

Also a super PJ with a bigrig as the neck PU doesn't sound bad in theory...

I almost decided on going for the no-route option and try the 51J set (or maybe a model J in the bridge) but now all the praise for the BigRig got me curious.
Contacting nordstrand isn't a bad idea, I tried to fill the form on their site but idk if it worked and they ever received my info request.

 

[DDawg]

Sorry, I guess I had it backwards.
Here's my Dirnt bass with the BigRig in the bridge position. I most often use it with the two coils in series when combined with the p-pickup, but it blends well in parallel too. Controls are individual volumes and tone with push-pull for switching the neck p-pickup coils series/parallel, bridge BigRig coils series/parallel, and both pickups combined series/parallel. I think the BigRig in the bridge position sounds better than my other PJs equipped with J-pickups or a Nordstrand Big Single at the bridge.

 

[Antreoo]

Sorry, I guess I had it backwards.
Here's my Dirnt bass with the BigRig in the bridge position. I most often use it with the two coils in series when combined with the p-pickup, but it blends well in parallel too. Controls are individual volumes and tone with push-pull for switching the neck p-pickup coils series/parallel, bridge BigRig coils series/parallel, and both pickups combined series/parallel. I think the BigRig in the bridge position sounds better than my other PJs equipped with J-pickups or a Nordstrand Big Single at the bridge.
View attachment 5388034

No worries! Very cool and versatile bass with all those options!
I guess the bigrig (series) in the bridge would be more usable on it's own compared to a 51J or Model J in the bridge.
Besides the questions related purely to the "sound" and the possible pairings, it's also a philosophical question.
Having access to a bridge PU, ideally it make sense to have something that could work in a band mix as a standalone PU, but in my limited experience I never ended up liking it enough to do so.
I have a fretless PJ with a blend control and I always end up either usind the full P or both PJ in a band mix, always found the bridge PU getting lost in band mixes.
Maybe with the bigrig it's not the case!

 

[5StringPocket]

A BigRig in series in the bridge position has some meat to it and doesn’t sound thin. It’s like two 51 P’s in one shell, not like a J. IME it’s more capable as a standalone even though I always use it in a mix favoring either the neck or the bridge. Being closer to the bridge gives it more bite but not as much as the J.

 

[RJC1811]

Thanks for all the inputs, those are some very interesting and unique builds!



This is basically what I had in mind, got any clips by chance?

Last night was the first gig with it. I’ll have to see if anyone got any videos. If not I can probably record a little on my phone. At times it got a little boomy. I had a very hard time dialing in my tone. I’m wondering if I need 500k pots instead of the 250k I went with?

I have the Big Rig wired in parallel or series with a push/pull on my tone knob. The way it’s wired now it was too muddy in series.

 

[Antreoo]

It's been a while, thanks everybody for the reply!
Little update: as suggested, I settled for the no route option (for now...) but couldn't find the nordstrand 51Js around here.

I went for a split single coil precision for the neck since there is a little swimming pool under the pickguard.
For the bridge I ended up getting a split ceramic jazz pu, a bit overwound, hoping to get a dark sound out of it.
Both the pickups are made by Iuso Pickups here in Italy ( https://www.iusopickups.com/en/product/tbspa54/ ).

In case the J doesn't give me what I hope to achieve it'll end up in the fretless PJ and make room for something else, probably a reverse P.

I've always been intrigued by double P basses, and almost decided to go with this option despite the fact that the routing would look like a crime scene...