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Nordstrand Dual Blade Neo's
- Thread starter Awesome Sauce
- Start date
Heh. Well, it took me more than a week, but I finally got a chance to test the Nordstrand DB5 dual-blade Neo pickups, in P2 shape for 5-string. I think these are the newer version, based on the description that Doug Parent posted earlier. My first impression of these pickups was not positive.
TL;DR: The SGD pickups won, but I'm going to give Nordstrand another chance.
Notes: I wired the pickups with the coils in parallel, as per the instructions. I have not yet tried them in series mode, nor have I tried any of the coil-splitting possibilities. I plan to post a follow-up review once I am able to try these other modes.
My test bass (a Warmoth Gecko fretless 5-string) has a neck of rosewood, with an ebony fingerboard. The body is made of mahogany with a rosewood top, with a clear satin finish. The bridge is a Kahler adjustable model made of steel, with brass saddles, set to approximately 18.5mm string spacing. Wiring is all passive, with two volume controls and a tone control (treble cut). The original pickups were a pair of SGD ND3 neodymium-powered humbuckers (wired in parallel) which I used for comparison. The strings are D'Addario XL nickel-wound strings, in standard gauges (.045 to .130).
The first thing I noticed was that the output level (in parallel mode) was much quieter than the SGD pickups. This wasn't inherently bad, as some of my favorite pickups have very low output levels.
The second thing I noticed was that the level of the E string was relatively weaker than the higher strings, and the level of the low B string was almost nonexistent. I couldn't get the low B string to sound balanced at all, and I tried several things including raising the height of the pickup so it nearly touched the strings. Pickups that have a weak low B string are a non-starter for me; I don't like to overuse this string at all, but when I do go deep I need the tone to be consistent, clear, and harmonically-rich. Sadly, I couldn't hear any of those tonal qualities on the low B string.
Putting those issues aside, these pickups did a decent job of capturing transient peaks and harmonics on the higher strings. I had the impression that they were a well-constructed humbucker in most other respects, and I did feel that they gave a respectable humbucker tone with a pronounced upper midrange.
Some other areas in which the Nordstrands fell below my expectations also included smoothness and woodiness, which describes pickup's ability to capture the tone of the wood, not just the strings (and frets, if present). I didn't really feel that these pickups delivered that level of nuance and control in the critical midrange areas where I hear the "woody" sounds, especially on this particular test bass since it has such a mix of tonal characteristics from its woods. With many other pickups (including the reference SGDs) I have been able to get smooth, woody tones from this bass by varying the attack. This pickup seemed to let less of that tone shine through when I played less aggressively.
The other area I would have liked to see this pickup do better was in the lock on the fundamentals. I'm beginning to realize that it must be quite a feat of engineering to design a pickup that does well on the full range of frequencies that a 5-string bass can produce. Locking in the fundamentals is critical because, for the lowest notes, these are the frequencies that the player and the audience should be able to feel in their chest and gut. These pickups didn't perform well in this area, whereas the reference SGD pickups did, other Nordstrand models also did, and a few other pickups (including the Villex classic series) tracked the fundamentals with absolute mastery.
To be quite honest, after spending time with these pickups, I was quite ready to take them out and put in something else, *anything* that had better string balance, tracked the low B string with some level of authority, and responded well to my fretless technique. Having the reference pair of SGD ND3 pickups on my table was a temptation, because I knew they could do better. Plus, knowing that Nordstrand's own Big Splits can track the low B string with immense presence and authority, I was left feeling that Nordstrand really didn't seem to put in the effort to keep the DB5 at that same high level of quality. It really felt like they either rushed the design, or never bothered to test these pickups in a bass with wide string spacing.
My initial analysis with visual inspection of the armatures showed that the blades weren't really wide enough to track all the strings, at least in this particular bass with 18.5mm spacing. It strikes me as odd that Nordstrand advertises this pickup as being able to work with a bass that has a maximum sensing area of 79.4mm. I ran the numbers, and that should have worked well with my bass. Magnetic paper also revealed that the magnetic field drops off quite rapidly at the ends of the blades, which may be why the low B string isn't being tracked very well in that location.
I should point out that my inspection of the pickups' internals was greatly aided by the fact that these pickups will fall apart during installation, removal, or even modest handling. True to form, Nordstrand opted to not attach the shells to any part of the armatures or flatwork, which means that you effectively have to hold the pickup together, or use some form of superglue to attach things permanently. I would like to not dwell on this aspect other than to note that it was a continued annoyance for me, and their insistence on using a removable, unattached shell has actually caused damage to another Nordstrand pickup in the past, to the point where I needed to send it back to be repaired. I don't believe this design flaw affects the tone, but I do feel that erring on the side of extreme serviceability makes the pickup more vulnerable and prone to damage, thereby requiring service in the future, etc.
However, in the spirit of giving these pickups another chance, I am going to put the pickups back in my test bass, with a fresh pair of strings (just in case there really was something wrong with my low B string) and also try other options such as wiring the coils in series, splitting the coils (to get the claimed Jazz tone) and seeing what I can do to improve on my results.
TL;DR: The SGD pickups won, but I'm going to give Nordstrand another chance.
Notes: I wired the pickups with the coils in parallel, as per the instructions. I have not yet tried them in series mode, nor have I tried any of the coil-splitting possibilities. I plan to post a follow-up review once I am able to try these other modes.
My test bass (a Warmoth Gecko fretless 5-string) has a neck of rosewood, with an ebony fingerboard. The body is made of mahogany with a rosewood top, with a clear satin finish. The bridge is a Kahler adjustable model made of steel, with brass saddles, set to approximately 18.5mm string spacing. Wiring is all passive, with two volume controls and a tone control (treble cut). The original pickups were a pair of SGD ND3 neodymium-powered humbuckers (wired in parallel) which I used for comparison. The strings are D'Addario XL nickel-wound strings, in standard gauges (.045 to .130).
The first thing I noticed was that the output level (in parallel mode) was much quieter than the SGD pickups. This wasn't inherently bad, as some of my favorite pickups have very low output levels.
The second thing I noticed was that the level of the E string was relatively weaker than the higher strings, and the level of the low B string was almost nonexistent. I couldn't get the low B string to sound balanced at all, and I tried several things including raising the height of the pickup so it nearly touched the strings. Pickups that have a weak low B string are a non-starter for me; I don't like to overuse this string at all, but when I do go deep I need the tone to be consistent, clear, and harmonically-rich. Sadly, I couldn't hear any of those tonal qualities on the low B string.
Putting those issues aside, these pickups did a decent job of capturing transient peaks and harmonics on the higher strings. I had the impression that they were a well-constructed humbucker in most other respects, and I did feel that they gave a respectable humbucker tone with a pronounced upper midrange.
Some other areas in which the Nordstrands fell below my expectations also included smoothness and woodiness, which describes pickup's ability to capture the tone of the wood, not just the strings (and frets, if present). I didn't really feel that these pickups delivered that level of nuance and control in the critical midrange areas where I hear the "woody" sounds, especially on this particular test bass since it has such a mix of tonal characteristics from its woods. With many other pickups (including the reference SGDs) I have been able to get smooth, woody tones from this bass by varying the attack. This pickup seemed to let less of that tone shine through when I played less aggressively.
The other area I would have liked to see this pickup do better was in the lock on the fundamentals. I'm beginning to realize that it must be quite a feat of engineering to design a pickup that does well on the full range of frequencies that a 5-string bass can produce. Locking in the fundamentals is critical because, for the lowest notes, these are the frequencies that the player and the audience should be able to feel in their chest and gut. These pickups didn't perform well in this area, whereas the reference SGD pickups did, other Nordstrand models also did, and a few other pickups (including the Villex classic series) tracked the fundamentals with absolute mastery.
To be quite honest, after spending time with these pickups, I was quite ready to take them out and put in something else, *anything* that had better string balance, tracked the low B string with some level of authority, and responded well to my fretless technique. Having the reference pair of SGD ND3 pickups on my table was a temptation, because I knew they could do better. Plus, knowing that Nordstrand's own Big Splits can track the low B string with immense presence and authority, I was left feeling that Nordstrand really didn't seem to put in the effort to keep the DB5 at that same high level of quality. It really felt like they either rushed the design, or never bothered to test these pickups in a bass with wide string spacing.
My initial analysis with visual inspection of the armatures showed that the blades weren't really wide enough to track all the strings, at least in this particular bass with 18.5mm spacing. It strikes me as odd that Nordstrand advertises this pickup as being able to work with a bass that has a maximum sensing area of 79.4mm. I ran the numbers, and that should have worked well with my bass. Magnetic paper also revealed that the magnetic field drops off quite rapidly at the ends of the blades, which may be why the low B string isn't being tracked very well in that location.
I should point out that my inspection of the pickups' internals was greatly aided by the fact that these pickups will fall apart during installation, removal, or even modest handling. True to form, Nordstrand opted to not attach the shells to any part of the armatures or flatwork, which means that you effectively have to hold the pickup together, or use some form of superglue to attach things permanently. I would like to not dwell on this aspect other than to note that it was a continued annoyance for me, and their insistence on using a removable, unattached shell has actually caused damage to another Nordstrand pickup in the past, to the point where I needed to send it back to be repaired. I don't believe this design flaw affects the tone, but I do feel that erring on the side of extreme serviceability makes the pickup more vulnerable and prone to damage, thereby requiring service in the future, etc.
However, in the spirit of giving these pickups another chance, I am going to put the pickups back in my test bass, with a fresh pair of strings (just in case there really was something wrong with my low B string) and also try other options such as wiring the coils in series, splitting the coils (to get the claimed Jazz tone) and seeing what I can do to improve on my results.
Dang nice review there. Scratching these off my list. Blades not wide enough for 19mm spacing is one of my pet peeves and I've ditched many a pickup because of it.
Have you tried Bartolini MK5's? After trying several pickups, I still keep going back to them and to me they deliver all of the things you are looking for. To my ears, anyway!
Have you tried Bartolini MK5's? After trying several pickups, I still keep going back to them and to me they deliver all of the things you are looking for. To my ears, anyway!
First off, thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed review. Second, I apologize your experience with the blades was so awful.
We did revise the pickups with longer blades but regrettably a few sets got out with the shorter ones. I'd like to ask you to please email us so we can either replace the pickups with the correct spec version or refund your purchase.
And again, please accept my apology for this situation. You obviously put a lot of work into testing and reviewing these pickups and I feel bad that so much of your energy went into a product that we didn't get right on the first try. I hope you give us a chance to make things right for you.
We did revise the pickups with longer blades but regrettably a few sets got out with the shorter ones. I'd like to ask you to please email us so we can either replace the pickups with the correct spec version or refund your purchase.
And again, please accept my apology for this situation. You obviously put a lot of work into testing and reviewing these pickups and I feel bad that so much of your energy went into a product that we didn't get right on the first try. I hope you give us a chance to make things right for you.
Awesome service there from Cary!
Tubby please take him up on it, I'd like to hear about the new set
Classy gesture from a top notch operation.
Nordstrand makes killer pickups (and preamps and basses) but knowing you're supporting good people who care about their customers is a great added bonus.
I do appreciate the in-depth review. Flaws notwithstanding, I was disheartened by the difference in tone to the Splits. I keep hoping that a stock, bar magnet pickup will come along and sound like them, but I must keep waiting...
But the fact that Carey and his company care so much makes me just want to order a set of custom Splits for the bass that doesn't even need them. That shows a true dedication to your work, which is rarer and rarer these days.
Kudos to Nordstrand for standing behind your product through thick and thin (sounding B strings).
But the fact that Carey and his company care so much makes me just want to order a set of custom Splits for the bass that doesn't even need them. That shows a true dedication to your work, which is rarer and rarer these days.
Kudos to Nordstrand for standing behind your product through thick and thin (sounding B strings).
Ok. Blade or bar style pickup that sounds like Big Splits. Should be doable. I honestly wasn't attempting that with these Neo Blades, and I hadn't even thought that would be a good objective. But...
Seed planted. Thanks!
Seed planted. Thanks!
Wow! I never thought would be that easy 
Allow me to elaborate...
I fell in love with the Splits in a Lakland 55-01, but wasn't jiving with 35" scale and not really in love with 19mm spacing either.
Add to that, I'm a "turn-and-burn" bass buyer in most respects, so I get something, noodle, then sell if it doesn't grab hold of me. That makes ordering a pickup with a wait time for custom building a less than viable option.
So I just kept thinking "I hope a Big Split-sounding pickup will come out some day, so I can play with it in different spaced applications..."
The DB5 looked promising, but by the description in the review, it's just a different beast. That's not a bad thing, just not the kind of thing I'd be looking for in this particular bass that I do love, but which has 18mm spacing.
I'd like to believe that a Big Split/Big Single/Fat Stack pickup with no string spacing requirements could satisfy a few more bass designs with the same pickup. Less need for custom spaced pickups being ordered.
Add to that, if it would fit into either a P2 or 40 shaped cover, that would make it even more useful! Aftermarket options would open wide up for a ton more basses.
Sorry, off on a tangent there. Thanks for listening, though!
Well we are working on other flavors of blade. Got a ceramic version cooking and also a Big Single type. Hopefully I'll have some samples and can get some feedback at NAMM and then see about getting them out there.
Wow. Hi!
Apology accepted. I'll send you a mail right away. I look forward to trying the model with longer blades.
Apology accepted. I'll send you a mail right away. I look forward to trying the model with longer blades.
Tubby please take him up on it, I'd like to hear about the new set
Gladly. I'll be eager to share my findings when the new set arrives.
I just installed these last night in my Pedulla Thunderbolt w/ audere preamp. Initally, I'm pretty impressed; right now I just don't have enough time to really give 'm a workout. I wired them with a 3-way coil tap (north single/series/south single). Hopefully by the end of this week I can write something up (starting a new job on Monday, after being unemployed since August)
My DB5s are still in the shop. Nordstrand is looking into the issues I had, and replacements will be sent to me.
Tubby, what was the outcome?
Carey...the one thing you guys seriously need to do is to put sound samples up of each pickup on your website. It's long overdue.
We sent him some new pickups. Not sure how they worked out for him.
I agree the samples are overdue. There are clips on youtube, but we need to organize access to that kind of stuff on our site.
To be honest though, we had to get our artist page done first. That was WAAAY overdue and IMO more important than sound clips. But the clips and extra media are coming.
