Not another Class D thr...

[No Malarky]

Honestly, no matter what gear I play through, I sound like me.

Yup.

 

[MrKpawz]

Not with actual Mayonaise with a discernable taste like the Belgians make. To me Hellmanns is an abomination.

All mayo is the same, an abomination to the taste buds

 

[SteveCS]

All mayo is the same, an abomination to the taste buds

You need to visit Belgium!

 

[MrKpawz]

You need to visit Belgium!

I hear the waffles there are famous

 

[Mark Reccord]

You play the bass AND the amp.

Your instrument = Your bass guitar + your bass amp +effects(if any)

A bass guitar unplugged on a stand or in its case makes no useable sound.

An amp standing in the corner with nothing plugged into it is an assembly or wood, electronics, and speakers that makes no sound (hopefully . . . . ) turned on with no bass plugged into it.

They work together. You have no instrument without both.

An electric bass needs to be plugged into something to make useable sound but that something doesn't necessarily need to be a bass amp. Lots of guys just plug into a DI and go straight to the PA without any effects or anything and that works fine for them. Not me though. I'm very much in the camp of the amp being part of my sound.

Buh buh buh but my "time aligned dielectrics" Monster Bass cables from '06 really DO sound different… a tiny bit darker than say my Mogami or Livewire cables. I use em for my acoustic guitar setup at church.

There's a real reason for that in those cables.

 

[Passinwind]

People talk about the "tone" of an amp. This to me is akin to talking about the color and design of a car. The "response" of the amp is more about how the drivetrain puts torque to the wheels and how the tires and suspension grip the road. I think it's useful to talk about the response and not just tone.

The gain and volume are the knobs where that happens in my amps.

I hate when that happens, seriously.

But as I've said many times, play feel is pretty hard to discuss well and it certainly is extremely important in what passes for my world.

 

[fhm555]

The answer is: mayo does not belong on a steak. That's what I call a misteak.

Theres a random phenomenon I encounter every so often with my amp settings. Im not much of a knob twister once I find "the settings". However within the parameters of same bass, same room, same amp, different days... some days (be from weather or who knows what else) my sound is different. I then spend 15 minutes twisting knobs until I find pleasant tones again. Only for a few days later/weeks later I find myself again hearing a different tone and tweak knobs once more. HellifIknowwhatshappening

You sure the anomaly is not on the other side of the eardrum?
I ask because i sometimes feel like somethings not right when it's same room same bass and do a little knob twiddling, only to return to the scene of the crime and need to adjust again to get back to the sound I prefer.
For me it could be a lifetime of too many uncapped headers, straight pipes on motorcycles, large caliber firearms, and music way too loud for any human being.
I never have trouble finding my amp happy place, but it's a moving target for sure. I just tend to believe it's me and not the gear.

 

[Standalone]

I hate when that happens, seriously.

But as I've said many times, play feel is pretty hard to discuss well and it certainly is extremely important in what passes for my world.

I tend to most enjoy the things that are ineffable and difficult to describe -- especially when there is a real element of personal taste and experience involved.

Agedhorse responded to some of my questions about power amp response that further clarified some things that I have dimly understood, and cobbled together from some manufacturer's ad copy (never the most reliable sources). I'm glad I'm not nuts to hear and feel what I like in an amp! Class D is great but there are some important things that I haven't found it able to do for me.

 

[Passinwind]

I tend to most enjoy the things that are ineffable and difficult to describe -- especially when there is a real element of personal taste and experience involved.

Agedhorse responded to some of my questions about power amp response that further clarified some things that I have dimly understood, and cobbled together from some manufacturer's ad copy (never the most reliable sources). I'm glad I'm not nuts to hear and feel what I like in an amp! Class D is great but there are some important things that I haven't found it able to do for me.

Roger that. It's part of the reason I started building my own amps a decade or so ago, as no old bass amps of any description have ever made me all that happy in the long term. I'm not married to any particular format though, and I've done A/B, D, and H class solid state DIY rigs with decent results, and am wrapping up a tube one at the moment for a change of pace. I suspect that one may get used a lot more for guitar, but time will tell.

 

[Element Zero]

This is exactly why I prefer Class D and FRFR cabs to heavily voiced amps. I want to hear the bass and all of the nuances of my playing. I spent years fighting with underpowered and over-voiced 'old-school' bass gear (Peavey, Marshall, Trace, etc.) that always seemed to impose itself on the overall result. Discovering the Genz-Benz Shuttle was a revelation that changed the game for me. I just wish such kit had been around when I was really busy with bands back in the mid '80s to mid '90s. Oh well!

I ran with a Trace back in the day too. It was great, but heavy and not loud enough. Same with Carvin. And Ampeg. Then… there was a stint with MarkBass,m which lead me to Aguilar, which firmly planted me in the Mesa camp.

 

[agedhorse]

[QUOTE="Standalone, post: 26484604, member: 96903]
Agedhorse responded to some of my questions about power amp response that further clarified some things that I have dimly understood, and cobbled together from some manufacturer's ad copy (never the most reliable sources). I'm glad I'm not nuts to hear and feel what I like in an amp! Class D is great but there are some important things that I haven't found it able to do for me.[/QUOTE]

Your preferences may not have anything to do with the class of the amp either.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

My answer to that.
Stop playing gigs that are big enough to have the bass run through the FOH!

There, I said it.

Best advice I have ever seen/heard on how to remedy the Sound Person/PA Sound problem.

 

[Standalone]

[QUOTE="Standalone, post: 26484604, member: 96903]
Agedhorse responded to some of my questions about power amp response that further clarified some things that I have dimly understood, and cobbled together from some manufacturer's ad copy (never the most reliable sources). I'm glad I'm not nuts to hear and feel what I like in an amp! Class D is great but there are some important things that I haven't found it able to do for me.

Your preferences may not have anything to do with the class of the amp either.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's why I hedge and say that I haven't found it able to do for me. There may be one out there; but I'm doubtful -- and not at my preferred used gear pricepoint.

I'd really like to hear more in these threads about where the differences truly are in Class D amps -- how they interact with drivers and cabinets, and how they work at the edges of performance. My hands and ears keep telling me that these amps are designed for clean music reproduction, and any DSP or preamp warmth just doesn't seem to sound the same to me.

A blind test would be very hard to conduct, since my own test is at a real gig, where I have to maybe make adjustments to the tone and gain mid-set as sound levels get adjusted and the band picks up volume. A fake front for each amp would have to be constructed, and I guess even the gig itself somehow recreated....!

 

[groove pump]

This is exactly why I prefer Class D and FRFR cabs to heavily voiced amps. I want to hear the bass and all of the nuances of my playing. I spent years fighting with underpowered and over-voiced 'old-school' bass gear (Peavey, Marshall, Trace, etc.) that always seemed to impose itself on the overall result. Discovering the Genz-Benz Shuttle was a revelation that changed the game for me. I just wish such kit had been around when I was really busy with bands back in the mid '80s to mid '90s. Oh well!

Experiencing the same sort of thing right now.

I recently picked up a Shuttle 6.0 as a backup to my first real dive into the class D realm - a GK MB 500, which has been over-delivering for me for about two years. I thought I didn't want anything else in terms of the sound coming out of my speakers when using the GK until I swapped in the Shuttle. Then what happened for me was something like followed by a little bit of

I've only used the Shuttle at one gig and a musician pal of mine (serious hobbyist like me) stopped in with his wife to check us out. He was wow'ed - told me that my sound was just perfect through the Shuttle and he also heard me start our second set where I switched to the GK. It was great to get that feedback from a less biased ear, especially considering that I played through both heads. Like you, my revelation and extended honeymoon are hopscotching along nicely.

 

[agedhorse]

Your preferences may not have anything to do with the class of the amp either.

Yes, that's why I hedge and say that I haven't found it able to do for me. There may be one out there; but I'm doubtful -- and not at my preferred used gear pricepoint. [/quote]

If you are on a tight budget, you simply may not be able to afford something that meets your personal tone goals.

I'd really like to hear more in these threads about where the differences truly are in Class D amps -- how they interact with drivers and cabinets, and how they work at the edges of performance. My hands and ears keep telling me that these amps are designed for clean music reproduction, and any DSP or preamp warmth just doesn't seem to sound the same to me.

There have been several very in depth discussions about this, and where many of the differences in amps in general come from. You might want to look those threads over with an open mind, as they represent real world applications.

While YOUR ears might be telling you something regarding clean or "music reproduction", there are many notable and successful real world examples to the contrary. These include class D amps by Darkglass, Orange and Mesa.

A blind test would be very hard to conduct, since my own test is at a real gig, where I have to maybe make adjustments to the tone and gain mid-set as sound levels get adjusted and the band picks up volume. A fake front for each amp would have to be constructed, and I guess even the gig itself somehow recreated....!

If you aren't willing or able to put in the effort to identify the differences, you can either accept your opinion as fact, or trust others who have more experience identifying those differences accurately.

 

[SOUTH PAW]

Well, that sounds pretty much like Phil. And since this thread isn't really about anything specifically, I might add a slight derail. I live a pretty good distance from the east coast of Florida, about 70 miles. My house sits on a slight hill looking across a lake towards the east. Normally I cannot hear rocket launches though they do rattle my windows a bit. However, on a still morning, with dense morning air, lower temps and a good bit of Florida humidity, the unmistakable deep rumble of a powerful rocket is plainly audible inside or outside of my house. I have heard the space shuttle as well as the Falcon 9 and years ago, a Titan. No doubt atmospheric conditions effect sound transmission. Of course we are talking about a very SERIOUS level of bass frequencies here.

I know what you mean about the very serious level of bass frequencies. About twenty years ago I worked at Rocketdyne as a Locksmith in Canoga Park, CA. They built most of the rocket propulsion systems from the past, including the space shuttle you mentioned, and some they continue to build currently. They have a field test facility in the Santa Susana hills, and as part of their Fire & Security department, I knew the fireman pretty well. So one day while I was up there installing lock hardware, I see the fire team preparing for a test of the Delta II propulsion system. I see the fire chief pull their big fire truck on an elevated plateau across from where I now see the rocket engine is already mounted on the stand, with a gulf between. Up till this point, I had known they did these tests, but only heard, actually mostly felt the vibrations from miles away, as you described from your vantage point. Well, then the Chief gets out and sees me reacting to what's going on, so he looks at me with a big smile on his face, and then asks me if I want a front seat view, from inside the fire truck, of what might be the last test before shutting down the whole test facility for good. I, immediately said yes, and hell yes. So, I watch as they have all their fire equipment in place just in case something goes awry, and half the mountain lights up (didn't happen thankfully) Anyway, as soon as they fired that thing up, the whole area began to shake violently, and I was amazed at the power and energy of what was a relatively small (compared to the Saturn ) rocket. So, I can't even imagine what the Saturn would have been like. It shook the truck pretty good and I felt an intense level of sub frequencies through my whole body as well. The visual part was awesome too, as you see in any launch, but not only by being up close, but how the event was extended by the fact it was being held in place against its will, bolted to the stand.
I was very fortunate to have that experience before it was no more.

 

[Outbush]

People talk about the "tone" of an amp. This to me is akin to talking about the color and design of a car. The "response" of the amp is more about how the drivetrain puts torque to the wheels and how the tires and suspension grip the road. I think it's useful to talk about the response and not just tone.

The gain and volume are the knobs where that happens in my amps.

In the various nefarious class D amp threads, I discuss my experiences and sense that I do not find the response I want in the amps I've played. They seem to simulate it, but never quite get it.

Each to their own on the class D, AB, valve etc (if there is an etc) thing - totally agree with the comments on the gain/volume relationship. I always think get that right with the eq flat & go from there.

 

[Element Zero]

All mayo is the same, an abomination to the taste buds

Not. Even. Close.

 

[5StringBlues]

Not. Even. Close.

Housemate came home with this the other day.

Purty good!

 

[Standalone]

Each to their own on the class D, AB, valve etc (if there is an etc) thing - totally agree with the comments on the gain/volume relationship. I always think get that right with the eq flat & go from there.

Yes -- I usually include a compliment for the bassists who prefer Class D. The amps sound great with a clean, controlled playing style that has just never quite been me. Huge respect for those players, I consider them "better" than me. I have a looser style that does best when the amp has some musical power amp nonlinearity; and I've not found a pedal that does this in a live setting when things get wooly.

Saving EQ for after exploring gain structure is a good way to go.