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Not loud enough thru FOH

rick1906

rick1906

Jun 6, 2002
308
0
IL
#1
I currently use an Aguilar Tone Hammer as my DI that feeds FOH. The board is programmable so all the “sound guy” has to do is turn it on and hit a button to get all of the channels at the right level. We brought in a professional that programmed it for us.

Here’s the problem… I want to use another amp/DI but when I do, I’m not loud enough. The sound guy doesn’t want to make adjustments, he just wants it to be plug and play. My amp has two DI outs. One is pre-EQ, and the other is post-EQ. I want to send a post-EQ signal since I want to project “my sound” and the sound guy doesn’t know how to EQ properly. So, using the pre-EQ DI out is not an option. The volume knob doesn’t control the post-EQ DI out since it has its own level control. When I max out the level, it still isn’t loud enough.

So, my idea is to send the preamp’s signal from an effects loop into a separate DI. I’m looking for a DI with a volume control and one that doesn’t color the sound since I’ll use the amp’s EQ. Will this work? Any recommendations on a DI that will fit the bill?
 
#4
Why doesn't he want to make adjustments?

Is it because the board is pre programmed? BTW I never heard of a pre programmed sound board before. IMO that would take away the control from the sound guy. Each room and venue is accoustically different also, so what sounds good through the board in a controlled situation, may not sound as good in a different room. I don't see why the sound guy wouldn't go into your channel and turn you up a little. Or why can't you just turn it up and reprogram that channel?
 
#5
I think your best option would be to go up to the sound guy before sound check, tell him that some hot chick wants to talk to him, and while he's away from the board, turn it up yourself. Then, after sound check, repeat this process if your level is not where you desire it to be.

Seriously, why are you paying him if he does nothing? The sound man's JOB is to continually adjust and tweak the levels through out the show. A programmable board that can't be adjusted? Like RicPlaya said, every room is different. How do you set up for different venues? What happens when you or the guitarists switch instruments? Or is that not an option with this board? Seems like an all around bad idea to me.

As to your actual question, with this current situation I don't have an answer, aside from ditch the board and sound man, and start over.
 
#6
RicPlaya said:
Why doesn't he want to make adjustments?

Is it because the board is pre programmed? BTW I never heard of a pre programmed sound board before. IMO that would take away the control from the sound guy. Each room and venue is accoustically different also, so what sounds good through the board in a controlled situation, may not sound as good in a different room. I don't see why the sound guy wouldn't go into your channel and turn you up a little. Or why can't you just turn it up and reprogram that channel?
Click to expand...
There are a number of consoles that can be programmed for different songs, different groups or even different sections of songs - but that doesn't mean that these are 'set and forget' consoles. I would honestly consider taking the gig away from the current 'sound man' and get a real one.
As an aside (even though you didn't ask the question), I would reconsider your idea that you can protect 'your' sound by sending a post-EQ signal to the console; even ignoring the fact that the frequency response of a PA is quite different than the response that you get from your bass amp, two other issues may rear their heads. The first is that the EQ curve that works on stage may not translate at all out in the room, and the second is that any engineer who is willing to mess with presets (that is, any engineer that isn't your current guy) will EQ the signal that he gets from you to make the overall band sound in each room sound as good as it can. You aren't really protecting anything that way, but you might be making it a bit harder to make the whole band sound good.
 
#7
Jonny B said:
I think your best option would be to go up to the sound guy before sound check, tell him that some hot chick wants to talk to him, and while he's away from the board, turn it up yourself.
Click to expand...

While he's with the chick , turn the gain up , not the fader , he won't notice anything.
Don't forget to press on "Save".


It's a soundman's job to EQ. Your "Plug & Play" guy is a Moron.
Each room NEEDS EQ , sometimes a lot.....
 
#9
rick1906 said:
. . . all the “sound guy” has to do is turn it on and hit a button to get all of the channels at the right level.

. . . The sound guy doesn’t want to make adjustments, he just wants it to be plug and play.

. . . the sound guy doesn’t know how to EQ properly.

Any recommendations . . . ?
Click to expand...


Get rid of the "sound guy" and replace him with someone who knows how to adjust levels and EQ.


edit: is it possible to train the guy you already have to be able to adjust the gain a tiny amount when you use an alternative DI/amp? I wouldn't think it would be that hard to do. If he's just dead set against the idea of adjusting the board for any reason :rollno:, then I would say you have no choice but to either replace him or buy another DI box that is louder that you can control from the stage.
 
#10
If a soundman told me that, I'd ask him what the hell is his problem that he can't be bothered to lift a finger and move a fader? Tell him the only plugging and playing he'll be doing is is on the unemployment line. Sounds like a JO. Use what you want and make him deal with it.
 
#11
Hi.

Wow, I've heard about bad soundmen in my life, but this chap might take the cake.

I agree with all the previous posters, You've got a big problem.

Either get him to do the work he's supposed to do, or let him walk. He's not the owner of the said mixing console, BTW?

Even the ancient programmable consoles had a few free memory slots so different "scenes" could be stored.

If the console You're using has the RTA function, the PA setup is so easy that an untrained monkey can do it. If Your individual levels are quite constant, that preset(s) can then be used over and over again, only the PA is tuned each time. OTOH if You don't tune the PA to the venue every time and fine-tune when the crowd arrives, most of the benefits of the programmability is lost. Store that as a preset and when You play there again, then tuning the PA is just a push of a button.

If You're a small band, playing in small venues, run Your own sound. I know it's not optimal, but it's better than the "soundman" You have now. If You're a touring band, pay someone to run the sound, it'll be worth it.

REgards
Sam
 
#13
Oh and by the way , the beauty of always sending a pre signal is that it is constant , the gain structure isn't gonna be all over the place depending on your humor/volume/EQ/amp. Just always bring the same DI.

Send a pre signal , set the gain structure correctly at the board, save, and you won't have those problems anymore.

The only problem you'll have is to find a real soundman , not the drummer's GF .... (No offense to GF's)
 
#14
I would bet a lot of money that this situation is taking place at a church, and that the sound system was "programmed" by an A/V company or tech who actually knew what was going on with it, and that the soundguy in question is just a volunteer who really doesn't know his stuff at all.

Am I right?

I feel your pain. I run sound and I play bass at my church, and I have a really hard time trusting either of the other sound guys to get stuff to sound right. My recommendation would be to try to take the soundman aside and explain what your problem is. Make sure he realizes that he's not going to destroy anything if he adjusts the input gain or boosts the bass a touch.
 
#15
You got it! Yes, it's a church. I should've chimed in earlier, but it's been a busy day. The guys are volunteers, so no one is getting paid. I can understand why they're a little gun shy in boosting because we've had issues in the past where the overall levels were WAY too loud. We brought the pro in, and he set everything for an automatic configuration. We have to pay him each time he comes in, so we don't want to do that every time I change amps/DI's. I've got a couple of amps I would like to use until I figure out which one works best in that environment which is why I made the original post.

I run wireless sometimes which is how I know amp #2 isn't as loud as the Tone Hammer. I'm just looking for a way to boost amp #2, #3, or whatever to the same levels without bringing the pro in and without freaking out the volunteers.
 
#17
jaywa said:
Oh man... sound guys in church settings. Don't even get me started on that...

Low frequencies are of the devil, don't you know...
Click to expand...
Hey now, I run sound at my church about 1/4 of the time.

Besides, it's not like they were intentionally cutting the bass out of the signal; the board is just set up for use with a hotter DI than Rick's amps put out.

Rick, why don't you just run your Tone Hammer into whichever amp you want to use, and use the DI on the TH, since that seems to work pretty well for you?
 
#18
bassman1185 said:
Hey now, I run sound at my church about 1/4 of the time.

Besides, it's not like they were intentionally cutting the bass out of the signal; the board is just set up for use with a hotter DI than Rick's amps put out.
Click to expand...

I know... it's just that the first church I played regularly in, the sound guy would be sitting back there with his little dB meter and whenever it got too loud it would be, "turn down the bass". In another church I wandered back to the board one time when no one was looking and looked at the bass channel and they had the "Low Cut" engaged. Brilliant.

Also, those digital boards with the pre-sets... my current church has one of those and after a couple years living with it, to be honest, I really think we would be a lot better off with a good old fashioned 24-channel analog board. The board we have is just way too much for volunteers to handle... would be much easier to train them on something older and simpler.
 

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