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Double Bass NS DESIGN EUBs....Please Help?

#22
I have a WAV4 and for the money it is excellent for my needs - usually orchestral practice when traveling. I think Golihur said it was the last of the Czech - made basses.(?) Easy to ship with the ski case I bought from Golihur. I find it very easy for arco. Pizz is easy too and I stuck on a piece of moleskin for a saddle marker. The discreet marks on the fingerboard help me to orientate to a different instrument.Only trouble is, I seldom use it otherwise. Too busy with the 'real' one. No doubt the day for it will come... The tripod allows a chair as well as a stool (or hotel bed).
 
#23
jaff said:
I have a WAV4 and for the money it is excellent for my needs - usually orchestral practice when traveling. I think Golihur said it was the last of the Czech - made basses.(?).
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The WAV was the Chinese made version, before NS brought the manufacturing in-house to the Czech factory (where the CR series is made) and came out with the NXT, also made in the Czech factory.
 
#24
Les Fret said:
Does anyone have any good videos that have a nice bowed NS sound? The ones I have seen didn't convince me...
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You have to remember, it's a slab instrument. The best it will sound like is an amplified instrument, and will miss out on the earthiness and tone of a true acoustic.

That video listed above isn't half bad in the approximation of the sound of the instrument. Strings are going to play a very large role in helping that sound, so if you want a good arco sound, you'll probably need either the NS Traditionals or a true URB string.
 
#25
GHS Official said:
You have to remember, it's a slab instrument. The best it will sound like is an amplified instrument, and will miss out on the earthiness and tone of a true acoustic.

That video listed above isn't half bad in the approximation of the sound of the instrument. Strings are going to play a very large role in helping that sound, so if you want a good arco sound, you'll probably need either the NS Traditionals or a true URB string.
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I agree that it's a slab instrument, but when amplified and processed properly, it can sound really beautiful, full, acoustic and rich. I'll post some sound clips of examples as soon as I can.
 
#26
kdrabbit said:
I agree that it's a slab instrument, but when amplified and processed properly, it can sound really beautiful, full, acoustic and rich. I'll post some sound clips of examples as soon as I can.
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I agree; I use my CR5-M on a regular basis in orchestras and bow it regularly.

The problem is that I read a lot of comments about people wanting to hear the arco sound of these instruments, hear a decent YouTube video (of which that last one was pretty decent), and then say they're not convinced. A lot of that comes back to "I thought it would sound like a real URB" and the answer has always been "Well, kind of..." That's not to say you can't get a great sound, but you need to know what the limitations of the instrument are in order to work with them and find those beautiful sounds.
 
#27
GHS Official said:
I agree; I use my CR5-M on a regular basis in orchestras and bow it regularly.

The problem is that I read a lot of comments about people wanting to hear the arco sound of these instruments, hear a decent YouTube video (of which that last one was pretty decent), and then say they're not convinced. A lot of that comes back to "I thought it would sound like a real URB" and the answer has always been "Well, kind of..." That's not to say you can't get a great sound, but you need to know what the limitations of the instrument are in order to work with them and find those beautiful sounds.
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I couldn't agree more, it surprises me that folks expect an instrument like a EUB to sound, look, feel, play, etc. like an URB. EUB's are an instrument all their own, they can be played and processed like an URB but they are unique in their own way.
 
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#28
kdrabbit said:
I couldn't agree more, it surprises me that folks expect an instrument like a EUB to sound, look, feel, play, etc. like an URB. EUB's are an instrument all their own, they can be played and processed like an URB but they are unique in their own way.
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^-- This. The NS has its own unique sound related to an upright bass. IMO, it doesn't have the complexity or depth of tone that a carved upright has, but its sound can definitely be considered pleasing to some ears. It's not a traditional sound, but it's not a bad sound either.
I wonder if the analogy between a nice Martin Dreadnought (sp?) guitar and a Les Paul might not be appropriate. You lose some complexity in tone but you gain things with sustain and overtones that aren't possible with the Martin.
 
#29
GHS Official said:
The problem is that I read a lot of comments about people wanting to hear the arco sound of these instruments, hear a decent YouTube video (of which that last one was pretty decent), and then say they're not convinced.
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I know the limitations of Youtube videos and also know that I will not sound like a real upright. Just haven't heard any decent bowing video of the NS upright. The above NS cello is an exception. I hope to see more of these. Since bowing is for 80% what I do and I am considering an electric upright. There aren't any shop here that have them so Youtube is my only reference point.
 
#30
Plain and simple, the NS has it's own sound. For that matter, the minute you plug in an actual upright bass and bow it, the sound you will get through a pickup is pretty similar to what the NS does, IMO. There is a lot of "bow on the string" and "direct" tone. That said, I've had great results bowing my CR4M with a fair amount of room reverb mixed in to my amp, and a 10 band EQ pedal.

I think the reason you don't see a lot of YouTube videos of the NS played arco is because there really aren't a lot of guys that do it in a traditional sense. If somebody does play arco on the NS, many typically play the instrument for what it is and drench the sound in delay or reverb, which I also think is cool.

There are VERY few electric-upright-only players. Many bassists, IMO and IME use the NS as its own voice and come to it from either a bass guitar background or an upright bass background. Given that the instrument is what it is, I'd wager you could get some of the best arco bassists on one and it would still sound only "decent' compared to an actual upright bass.
 
#32
I agree the EUB is its own instrument; but I have been playing the NXT 4 in our swing big band the past year, and it has had good acceptance from other band members, many who are purists about the big band sound. When I purchased it from Gollihur I had them put the traditional strings on it and raise the bridge, etc. to give as much thump as possible. With a bit of tweaking on the combo amp ( I use the pot stop to kill the on board settings) I get an entirely acceptable walking bass with the band. However, I still take my acoustic upright on jobs now and then just for old times sake, but I am 71 years old, and the convenience and portability of the EUB means a lot to me.
 
#33
Pat Harris said:
Plain and simple, the NS has it's own sound. For that matter, the minute you plug in an actual upright bass and bow it, the sound you will get through a pickup is pretty similar to what the NS does, IMO. There is a lot of "bow on the string" and "direct" tone. That said, I've had great results bowing my CR4M with a fair amount of room reverb mixed in to my amp, and a 10 band EQ pedal.

I think the reason you don't see a lot of YouTube videos of the NS played arco is because there really aren't a lot of guys that do it in a traditional sense. If somebody does play arco on the NS, many typically play the instrument for what it is and drench the sound in delay or reverb, which I also think is cool.

There are VERY few electric-upright-only players. Many bassists, IMO and IME use the NS as its own voice and come to it from either a bass guitar background or an upright bass background. Given that the instrument is what it is, I'd wager you could get some of the best arco bassists on one and it would still sound only "decent' compared to an actual upright bass.
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The guy who I've seen play EUB the most is Keith Grimwood of Trout Fishing In America. He has some fairly believable DB cred, having been in the Houston Symphony. He plays a Clevinger. And over the years I've heard him get waaaaaaaay closer to a real DB sound on his EUB than anyone else I've heard. Mostly I think that's due to his bow skills. But I use him as my goal. He's what I want to sound like on my WAV4. I'm not there yet.
 
#36
I recently got an NS Design 4 and have been overall happy with it.

1. I do not use a preamp. Before purchasing it I saw posts recomending a preamp so I got an Eden preamp DI that was discounted. I find I do not need a preamp at all, using a Fender Rumble 150 and 1-15 cab or using a a Fender Bronco 40 as a practice amp. I get a good tone either way without the preamp (especially using the 1-15 cab) and can switch between my p bass and the NS4 without a huge difference in volume. Have not been thrilled with the Eden (there is a separate thread on this.) I have a tiny VOX headphone only amp and the NS does not sound good through that at all but either of my other amps work fine (with or without headphones).

2. I have seen alot of posts about the stands being flimsy. Mine is very sturdy and easy to use. It does not work seated, however. I want to get a higher stool so I can practice without standing.

3. The switch from eb to the NS eub is very natural and came very quickly. The scale is longer but I gigged with mine after 5-6 weeks, though I should have used my p bass for some of the faster, trickier tunes. I had very little experience on an upright before buying the NS4. The position markers seem spot on.

4. The NS 4 comes with the "Contemporary" D'Addario strings. I get a good tone out of the E and A but the D and G are a little thin (to my ears). I have ordered the "Traditional" NS strings but have not gotten them on yet. I anticpate switching out the tuners and going to full DB Strings at some point but thought I would try these first. The action comes set pretty low so I did raise it to allow the strings to properly vibrate. I've not tried the Omni but I wanted a traditional URB sound (I play in a bluegrass band) and I feel the longer scale is necessary to get the traditional sound, sustain and decay that I want.

5. The portability of the NS 4 makes it a great alternative to a full DB. I can get my NS4, an Ibanez AEB10 acoustic and my Bronco amp in my Miata to go to practice. I don't think you can find a much smaller car. I do need my wife's van to get my 1-15 (and p bass, etc) to gigs.

Overall it has been a great way to transistion towards getting a real DB sound and style with a really short learning curve and without the transporation issues of a full DB. The guys in my band really like it and I think it has helped me play in a more traditional Bluegrass style as compare to my p bass. It is a really well built instrument and should hold up well.
 
#38
Sorry I did not pipe up earlier, I was out of town for a series of meetings with a vendor.


Here's my philosophy on the subject of sound from an EUB: The best any EUB could hope to achieve would be to sound like a double bass with a pickup on it. Since the NS basses are tightly constructed and are solid-body instruments, their habits lean towards a more electric sounding bass (more sustain, more string detail, that sort of thing.) The stock strings (NS Electric "Contemporary") don't help; they're fairly un-upright-like in my opinion. In my experience, using strings which pull it towards a more URB-oriented sound (less sustain, a more blunt attack to notes, almost a gut-string-like vibe) will effectively counter-balance the electric nature of the bass.

So if you're going for an "authentic" DB sound, changing strings helps a LOT, and with pizz, so does playing it like a "real" bass (no wimpy fingertip plucking - you gotta dig in to get the strings to "bloom.")

As for the instrument lineup, I will make one correction to the lineup as posted - the CR model is (currently, anyway) further divided into a couple of models - they don't all have magnetic pickups. That bass that has been referenced is the CR-M model (M for "magnetic"). So here's the further breakdown:

WAV - Chinese-made "budget" model, lower-cost/quality stand, case - passive, no preamp (No longer made)
NXT - Improved version of WAV, better construction (made in Czech Republic), better woods
CR - Made in C.R., Active preamp, higher grade wood and construction, better stand and bag, finish options
CR-T - "Traditional" model - endpin stand, "thumb position" marker, engineered to be more arco-friendly
CR-M - "Magnetic" adds EMG "dot" pickups, two-channel blending preamp to CR
EU - "Euro" model - extremely high end, very expensive, usually made to order

Now, the CR model (polar pickup only, no magnetics) has been effectively phased out of the lineup quite recently (last month) by NS Design. As a result, I have a handful of the very few basses that were left, and they're now marked down quite considerably. Basically, you can think of the CR bass as an NXT with all of the "essential" upgrades already done for you. It has a better bag, the high-end heavy-duty tripod, a built-in active preamp, a polar blend knob (not switch) and notably better construction/fit and finish/wood choices. So... there's that option.
 

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