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Double Bass NS Design WAV4 megathread part II
- Thread starter Gary Lynch
- Start date
Link Removed.
Thanks for the pointer, Jason. Looks like that part of the problem has already been solved!
Insert usual grumble about them catering to "both" operating systems, but I'll hold off on giving Line6 any grief about that until I have the time to seriously look at getting into it.
Thanks for the pointer, Jason. Looks like that part of the problem has already been solved!
Insert usual grumble about them catering to "both" operating systems, but I'll hold off on giving Line6 any grief about that until I have the time to seriously look at getting into it.
Hey Matthijs, are you sure there weren't any effects loaded up on the multieffect? It sounds to me like there are some artifacts from an octaver (the synthesized note cutting in and out) in the track. It's low, but can be heard right through the track, so I don't think it's the AC-3.
Well, to be fair, I'm a professional at finding evidence that good ideas are old ideas.
But it seems true that nobody has targeted upright bassists (electric or acoustic) with a modeling effects pedal, and it's generally a wealthier market (compared to electric guitar effects). I, for one, am getting by using a guitar effects board for my EUB - obviously my patches are very atypical, and I'm generally "abusing" the modeled equipment, but the results are passable.
Instead of 50 amps and 100 effects, I'd prefer to have some fully parametric compressors and reverbs, and I'm sure there are some specific bass "enhancer" effects that would be nice.
Well, so much for our hopes to get rich and famous on the internet.
Now if it only could be simple and one would not need to master assembly code. (yes, I know I'm high maintenance
).I like what they've done. If this catches on it would be great to use TB as an exchange platform for DIY digital effects.
I've been reading in this thread for a while now, and I'm getting curious about the WAV4 pickup system.
An earlier thread here mentions a schematic, and going earlier in that thread turns up a URL for the schematic here. There are also some posts stating that what magic switch does is switch the polarity of the pickup under the treble foot of the bridge. Pizz mode uses both pickups in standard polarity, arco mode switches the polarity of the treble pickup.
What I'm not quite clear on is
* Minus the effects of the volume and tone pots, and the filter capacitor on the switch, are the pickups used in series or parallel?
* What is the implication of the middle setting of the switch, in particular the cap between two of the switch poles?
An earlier thread here mentions a schematic, and going earlier in that thread turns up a URL for the schematic here. There are also some posts stating that what magic switch does is switch the polarity of the pickup under the treble foot of the bridge. Pizz mode uses both pickups in standard polarity, arco mode switches the polarity of the treble pickup.
What I'm not quite clear on is
* Minus the effects of the volume and tone pots, and the filter capacitor on the switch, are the pickups used in series or parallel?
* What is the implication of the middle setting of the switch, in particular the cap between two of the switch poles?
Pickups are in parallel. In the original wiring, as in the schematic you linked to, there is no middle setting (on/on switch) and there is an extra cap switched in for the arco setting. (i believe arco is standard polarity and pizz is out of phase). I think the phase reversal is meant to cause different sensitivities to lengthwise and up/down vibrations.
Myself I've installed a small buffering pre and changed the wiring with a three way (on/off/on) switch to the orginal pizz setting, a middle setting with only the bass pickup and the orginal arco setting without the extra cap, and I use the original arco cap value for the tone pot. I almost always use the middle setting.
Hello Matthijs,
I've just briefly wired existing switch to the only bass side piezo and arco with it's original cap.
Wow, the bass side pickup alone sound so natural. Reading your post, I assume that you also like that option. How does it works in practice.
Second thing, what did you achieve with removing arco cap an puting it on tone pot?
Thanks
I did not like the original tone pot's cap value very much, so now the 'arco cap' is the tone pot cap. I almost always have it somewhere halfway. Wether that would work out for you also depends on the strings, I use well worn in Obligato's that already darken up the sound a bit.
The one piezo sound is imho way better than the original wiring, although the original settings did improve when I installed fdeck's little buffering pre. Sometimes i use the original settings when i want a very specific sound, but that's very rare.
The one piezo sound is imho way better than the original wiring, although the original settings did improve when I installed fdeck's little buffering pre. Sometimes i use the original settings when i want a very specific sound, but that's very rare.
I have D'addario Helicore Medium customized for WAV
Only one piezo pickup really brings more natural sound and dynamic response. But also noticed that G string has less sustain comparing to original pizz setting which is for me too "plastic" sounding. Sustain issue is more noticed when sliding. Do you have such problem on your strings?
Only one piezo pickup really brings more natural sound and dynamic response. But also noticed that G string has less sustain comparing to original pizz setting which is for me too "plastic" sounding. Sustain issue is more noticed when sliding. Do you have such problem on your strings?
I don't really notice a difference in sustain between strings and in the different settings. The Obligato's sound much less like an electric bass and have more 'thump' compared to the originals, specially now they are worn in. Can't compare them to the Heliocores.
I do notice a slightly more nasal sound on the g string around the 7th position in all piëzo settings. I have to check to make sure it's the same in all settings though. It feels to me like it is a setup problem and I'd have to let the fingerboard checked out by a luthier.
I did always use the fishman pro platinum for the wav. It also has a 10meg input and might sound about the same as the B II. The little DIY buffer by fdeck did make a big difference though. (Invalid Link Removed)
It's not only about the impedance, it handles the dynamics
a lot better and is more transparent. I found the difference striking. Several weeks ago I heard a recording of a rehearsal in wich I was amazed at how much more the wav sounded like the real thing than I imagined. (I almost only use the wav for rehearsals). If I can find the file I'll post a clip tonight.
I do notice a slightly more nasal sound on the g string around the 7th position in all piëzo settings. I have to check to make sure it's the same in all settings though. It feels to me like it is a setup problem and I'd have to let the fingerboard checked out by a luthier.
I did always use the fishman pro platinum for the wav. It also has a 10meg input and might sound about the same as the B II. The little DIY buffer by fdeck did make a big difference though. (Invalid Link Removed)
It's not only about the impedance, it handles the dynamics
a lot better and is more transparent. I found the difference striking. Several weeks ago I heard a recording of a rehearsal in wich I was amazed at how much more the wav sounded like the real thing than I imagined. (I almost only use the wav for rehearsals). If I can find the file I'll post a clip tonight.
Thanks for great info. I'm looking forward to hear the soundclip.
One more thing, did you put two buffers for either of pickups or only one on the output?
Thanks again
One more thing, did you put two buffers for either of pickups or only one on the output?
Thanks again
I gathered from this and other postings that indeed the "arco" mode is just phase reversal of one of the two under-foot pickups.
I've applied this to my Ergo 7-string cello to good effect. I actually have two pairs of pickups; each foot has a sandwich of two piezo discs under it. The upper pair I use phase reversed for arco, the bottom pair I use for pizz. I insulate between the discs with electrical tape. These wires all go to a stereo jack, into a K&K Dual Pro preamp. So I can either use the main output alone, mixing or selecting pickups with the volume knobs; or, output both signals to my Pod X3 Live (guitar input and aux input) and select which pickup mix to use on a per-patch basis.
I just wanted clarification that this was indeed the main trick. I can verify that.
This is the rehearsal recording I promised. don't expect too much as it is a take from a sloppy rehearsal recorded with my zoom, standing in the middle of the band. The bass is amplified with an ancient dynacord bass king and a just as old no name 15" speaker.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
edit: o, and I forgot the drummer called in sick, make one hear the bass a lot better though
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
edit: o, and I forgot the drummer called in sick, make one hear the bass a lot better though
To clarify even more, out-of-phase is what most people like for arco. in-phase is a more sustain-heavy, electric bass type of tone. I think that in-phase sounds different from bridge wing pickups or pickups up near the strings at the edge of the bridge.
The idea: If your pickups are in phase, the total up-down motion of the bridge will cause the same polarity of output from both pickups. So up/down motions are amplified more.
If they're out of phase, as the whole bridge moves up and down, the pickups output opposite polarities. However, the rocking motion in the bridge (left-right-left-right) will cause the left foot to go down while the right foot goes up. That will cause the same polarity output in both feet. So out of phase amplifies mostly the rocking motion of the bridge.
It makes a lot of sense now that I've tried it and seen it work. It took lots of research to really decide that that's the trick. Until the WAV and NXT instruments came out, I wondered whether the "trick" to arco/pizz mode was in the preamp. Since the WAV and NXT instruments don't have a preamp, and we have a schematic, it could be verified.
It doesn't seem like any special pickup materials are required to use this trick; it works for me with 20mm piezo buzzer discs with 15mm ceramic elements on them.
Planning to experiment a bit with those flexible piezo-film tabs at some point too.
Matthijs said:
It sounds great. Really nails that URB sound. Thanks.
Maybe you missed my question. How many buffers you have installed and where are they placed in the sifnal chain?
Thanks
