NTIFD: I Can Get No Relief

[bmusic]

I took the plunge and sprung for a set to TI flats, and a day into my experience, I have good news and bad news.

The Good: they really are all that. The tone on my 73 P is now That Tone. And they're not even broken in yet. So consider me a convert.

The Bad: the neck is straight as an arrow, and the strings, with their famously low tension, are refusing to pull it into any kind of reasonable relief, even with the truss rod loosened a couple full turns (I would estimate) and left overnight. The truss rod nut is still on the threads, as far as I can tell, but it's beginning to protrude from the neck to the point where I don't think I can turn it any more without somehow interfering with the way the neck sits in the pocket. My thinking is that it's about as loose as it can be, but the neck kinda likes itself and doesn't want to bend at all.

A tiny bit of history: I've had the bass for maybe a year and a half, and it arrived with Fender flats on it, which have stayed throughout my ownership (except for maybe a month when it wore round Chromes). I don't know if these strings were originally put on the bass to help deal with this issue, or if a life lived with these strings (and the necessary truss rod tension) have left the neck, well...obstinate.

As it stands now, if I play very lightly, I can minimize fret buzz (the A string is especially sensitive), but I'd prefer not to have to alter my technique too much. Is this a common/known issue?

Any diagnoses, suggestions, thoughts and prayers are deeply appreciated.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Did relaxing the TR nut add any addt'l relief? Try clamping the bass between your knees (strings tuned to pitch, TR as loose as possible), put one hand on back of neck (1-2 fret level), the other on the fingerboard 'bout halfway down, and apply some opposing force. Stuff does bind up on occasion.

Riis

 

[bmusic]

Did relaxing the TR nut add any addt'l relief? Try clamping the bass between your knees (strings tuned to pitch, TR as loose as possible), put one hand on back of neck (1-2 fret level), the other on the fingerboard 'bout halfway down, and apply some opposing force. Stuff does bind up on occasion.

Riis

At one point I thought there was a tiny bit—like from zero clearance using the tap test to just the slightest clack—but I’m not sure. And yeah, I’ve attempted some chiropractic work. Maybe I’ll try some more forceful wrestling.

 

[Zooberwerx]

At one point I thought there was a tiny bit—like from zero clearance using the tap test to just the slightest clack—but I’m not sure. And yeah, I’ve attempted some chiropractic work. Maybe I’ll try some more forceful wrestling.

Some folks install an old set of standard or heavier gauge strings and tune-up an extra whole step to move the project along.

Riis

 

[bmusic]

Some folks install an old set of standard or heavier gauge strings and tune-up an extra whole step to move the project along.

Riis

I could put the Fenders back on it...

 

[Zooberwerx]

I could put the Fenders back on it...

Works for me. I'm just curious as to whether we can induce a nominal amount of relief irrespective of the method...just short of placing it between two chairs and sitting on it.

Riis

 

[bmusic]

Works for me. I'm just curious as to whether we can induce a nominal amount of relief irrespective of the method...just short of placing it between two chairs and sitting on it.

Riis

When I put it between my knees and pull, as you've suggested, I do feel it flex in my hands. So it's capable of movement; it just doesn't want to stay that way yet.

I might add that the A string feels especially flappy, and buzzes up the neck beyond the first 5 frets. So it seems like even beyond the relief issue, there's a looseness with this strings that I'll need to contend with. (Not that I'm above putting in a little effort.)

 

[Zooberwerx]

When I put it between my knees and pull, as you've suggested, I do feel it flex in my hands. So it's capable of movement; it just doesn't want to stay that way yet.

I might add that the A string feels especially flappy, and buzzes up the neck beyond the first 5 frets. So it seems like even beyond the relief issue, there's a looseness with this strings that I'll need to contend with. (Not that I'm above putting in a little effort.)

I use the LaBella Low Tension Flats on my Carvin 5. I did have to relax the truss rod to get the relief back in spec. I think that's priority #1 and, once that's taken care of, we can look at the other issues. Flat-wounds can be strange-agents and require some extra finesse (IME) when installing.

Riis

 

[bmusic]

Update: I have now swapped strings between my 2 P-basses. The 73 I’ve been discussing is now wearing LaBella flats, and the TI flats have gone on to my 74. This is better for the 73, which seems to have about the same amount of relief—but most importantly, no buzz—with the firmer, thicker LaBellas. And it’s better for the TIs on the 74 neck, which is allowing me adjustment and therefore giving me all the relief I need.

Side note: I noticed that the bridge on the 73 is about 3/8” closer to the neck. That would certainly contribute to some flappiness, right? Bringing it to pitch across a slightly shorter length of travel would mean more wobble when the string is plucked—and, I suppose, less inherent tension? (Or maybe I have this exactly backwards.)

At any rate, this also solves the previously unmentioned E-string silk-over-the-saddle issue I had with the TIs on the 73; now the bridge is closer to the butt, the saddle is farther from the ball, and the silk is in the clear.

Ah, the CBS years...

We’ll see how everything feels in the morning, but for now, I’m optimistic. Thanks for talking me through it, my man.

 

[Slater]

I noticed that the bridge on the 73 is about 3/8” closer to the neck. That would certainly contribute to some flappiness, right?

Theoretically, if you adjust the bridge saddles for proper intonation, with the same set of strings, on two different 34” scale basses, the “speaking length” (from saddle to nut) of each string should be the same.

Do the bridge saddles on the ‘73 seem to be further back? Maybe 3/8”?

 

[bmusic]

Theoretically, if you adjust the bridge saddles for proper intonation, with the same set of strings, on two different 34” scale basses, the “speaking length” (from saddle to nut) of each string should be the same.

Do the bridge saddles on the ‘73 seem to be further back? Maybe 3/8”?

Yeah, about.

I guess you’re right about string lengths.

 

[Jeff Scott]

With no strings on the neck of the '73 and the truss rod fully loose, is there, perchance, a bit of back bow to the neck?

 

[bmusic]

With no strings on the neck of the '73 and the truss rod fully loose, is there, perchance, a bit of back bow to the neck?

There is indeed. Just a bit.

By “truss rod fully loose,” I mean, the nut is still threaded on the rod, but it moves without any resistance at all.

There may even be a tiny bit of back bow with the strings on. It’s hard to tell whether ever-so slight rocking of my ruler is due to unevenness in the fret work or a neck bow.

 

[Jeff Scott]

Thanks for checking that. Given that, that particular necks needs one of two things:

1) Heavy strings to compensate for the back bow.

2) Some heat treatment to get the neck flat with no tension on it.

 

[bmusic]

Thanks for checking that. Given that, that particular necks needs one of two things:

1) Heavy strings to compensate for the back bow.

2) Some heat treatment to get the neck flat with no tension on it.

Simple, concise, to-the-point. I like it.

I don't suppose "heat treatment" could be achieved by putting the neck on my patio for a little while, under the Southern California sun...