Double Bass NY Philharmonic Lawsuit

[bassbuz]

And all this is going to be discernable from the sound coming from behind a screen?

no. that's why there's a tenure period. a) to see if you can play like you prepared for your audition on an every day/ program basis, b) to see what you can't see behind a screen.

or were you being fascetious?
buz

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

And all this is going to be discernable from the sound coming from behind a screen?

Well the original story was about the concept of being "on probation" in an orchestra and then getting tenure if it worked out OK.

I was saying that it seemed likely the guy in the story was seen as more "confrontational" than "team player" - whereas the women who were getting tenure ahead of him were more liley to be the opposite - so it was about "fitting in" rather than about any kind of discrimination or reflection on playing ability?

 

[Martin Sheridan]

I also read into this story that his co-workers and employers may not have been honest in the reviews of his work which led him to think that everything was ok. This is a fault of management. Being let go after several years of work with the orchestra and feeling blinded about it sounds like they did not sit down with him in advance and explain to him his problems. That or he's so thick he didn't hear the criticisms, but it sounds to me that it was poorly handled. I've been in the position of doing the hiring and firing. Usually when someone is fired, they know it's coming. If they don't you haven't done your job. Standard procedure is to sit down with the person and tell them what they are doing wrong, if this doesn't work they should get a sit down again along with a written notice of what deficiencies need to be corrected and a time period to work through that. All this should come before a formal firing, I think even in the situatiion of where your work is probationary. In a normal work atmosphere a probationary period would usually be no more than a few months. I think when it it a matter of years as in this case, management really blew it. He may and probably did deserve to loose his job for any number of reasons, but he shouldn't have been blind sided. It will be interesting to see what kind of evidence he presents legally in his case, and how management responds. If all they have in their files are reviews telling him what a great job he did, they may be in big trouble.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Being let go after several years of work with the orchestra ...
I think when it it a matter of years as in this case, management really blew it.

Eh? Where did you get this from?

The original post says, and I quote :

"as the months of his probationary period went on.."

 

[jneuman]

Eh? Where did you get this from?

The original post says, and I quote :

"as the months of his probationary period went on.."

Is passing your probationary period the same as gaining tenure? In the corporate world it varies, but a 6mo. to 1 year probation is normal. To get tenure in the academic world takes years and years, and some don't ever make it. What is the norm with symphony orchestras?
-Jon

 

[billybass]

The probation time in the NY Phil is two years.

 

[Martin Sheridan]

Quote:

And one day, orchestra officials abruptly told Mr. Polezhayev to pack up his violin and leave after the 2003-4 season. He had failed his probation despite, he says, strong reviews of his playing.



Mr. Polezhayev joined the second-violin section in September 2002M. In informal conversations during the spring of 2003, he said, Mr. Dicterow told him there was no problem with his playing, and Mr. Schiebler said his work was "perfect." But the Mr. Polezhayev has shown an ambitious, and savvy, edge. In a January 2004 article in The New York Times, about a month before he was denied tenure,
....."

Well, you're right. Not exactly years, but not a period of just a few months. Looks like about a year and a half, which seems like a rather long probationary period to me. I think most business that have probationary periods would be working in the realm of 1-3 months.

 

[Tbeers]

2 years is outrageous. I think a more realistic and reasonable period would be one season. And if something is wrong, the employee should be told immediately. There's nothing I hate more than feeling as though I've been screwed with or strung along.

 

[PB+J]

two years?! In my world--college professor--it takes seven years to get tenure. It took me seven years and the publication of a book and scholarly articles, as well as outstanding teacing evaluations and being an all round helpful guy on admin. committees. Two years seems really light to me

 

[Martin Sheridan]

You live in a very special world. In the rest of the world there is no tenure, ever. Even Orchestra's will let someone go after years, if they find somebody better. In the business world you are only as good as what you are doing for them now. No resting on your laurels.

 

[PB+J]

I'm not resting--I'm just pointing out that two years probation isn't that long a period. Tbeers seemed to think that two years was along time.

 

[bassbuz]

Hey.
Maybe one other detail is that two years doesn't really mean two full years. It's more like a season and another half season - so not 12 month years, really. Some players need all that time just to change their setup to blend (bow, strings, reeds, instrument). Also, music directors aren't there for two years - only a few weeks out of each season. So, I think it's a compromise between giving the guy a chance to adapt and fit in and giving the orchestra a fair idea of how he's adapting.

If he's sitting in the seconds and already saying he's gunning for the concertmaster job, that's one red flag. One flag that has two functions: worrying to some and proverbial waving the red flag in front of the bull(the bull being the old farts in the orchestra)to others... I've also noticed that Dicterow liked his "playing", we didn't hear anything about the fitting in part. I sure would worry about having this guy in my section.

all right.
buzz

 

[Craig Garfinkel]

In a January 2004 article in The New York Times, about a month before he was denied tenure, he was quoted as saying that he wanted "to keep moving - to a first violin chair up front, a principal, first chair, maybe even concertmaster." He said that winning competitions was "excellent for publicity."

Earth to Mr. Polezhayev:

It's probably not too smart, as a probationary second violinist in the New York Freakin' Philharmonic, to get the New York Freakin' Times to write an article about you and your family, and then proceed to let the world know you're already chomping at the bit to move up through the ranks, which means displacing the cats already there, and maybe even eventually taking Dicterow's job.

I guess the old addage "all publicity is good" doesn't quite apply here?