Obvious examples of compression in recorded music?

[pbass2]

Try the remixed version of Vapor Trails. You will be pleasantly surprised! It's like a completely different album.

Geddy, Alex and Neil all said that the finished product of Vapor Trails was too "hot". Is that digital clipping or compression?

In that case it's "brickwall" limiting, so, lots of clipping. Actually you could say any limiting is "brickwall" because it sets a limit and anything that would go over gets clipped. Pretty much all mastered music these days has that going on--technically there's some clipping--just depends on how extreme it's done. But the nastiness comes in when it's done super aggressively, squeezing the audio up to that ceiling so that the dynamics get lost, and lots of of the waveform is clipping.

 

[BigJohnAZ]

Try the remixed version of Vapor Trails. You will be pleasantly surprised! It's like a completely different album.

Geddy, Alex and Neil all said that the finished product of Vapor Trails was too "hot". Is that digital clipping or compression?

I do have it, it's better, but not night and day.

I actually bought the original twice because I thought the first copy was somehow manufactured improperly. So I really have 3 copies all told lol and it's probably my least favorite Rush album.

 

[Phaidrus]

If you could sidechain the compressor to the kick then you'd be there as far as that pumping feel goes, doesn't matter what kinda bass it is--bass guitar, synth. Done all the time in recordings, and yes live as well, but if there was ever a time to leave handling the bass compression to the FOH, this is one of them! (not to say it wouldn't be fun to try it in your own bass signal chain somewhere, I'm sure someone is doing that...).
Think of it like "ducking" as opposed to "pumping"--the kick is hitting the compressor and the bass is ducking down a bit on those transients and then leaping back out in the spaces in between, as the compressor pulls it up. And you get that kick hitting super clear and distinct. It creates that excitement in that music.
As for the tone of the bass, that's a different thing.

Got to try it! But first I have to get myself a compressor. I've been considering the Markbass Compressore due to its full parametrization settings as well as due to tube that actually does the compression and adds some fatness.

 

[pbass2]

Got to try it! But first I have to get myself a compressor. I've been considering the Markbass Compressore due to its full parametrization settings as well as due to tube that actually does the compression and adds some fatness.

The compressor needs to have sidechain capability. There needs to be an input on the device for that. Other than software, some hardware units can do it, like an API 2500, and even a budget friendly one like the FMR RNC(great compressor). I don't know of any pedals that can do it. I'm sure some of the compressor pedalheads in the Effects forum will know!
EDIT: OK, I had to look--the Empress can do it. That's a really cool looking unit (if I used a compressor pedal I'd for sure look into that one): Bass Compressor

 

[Bass-ball]

No, its when they use a compressor/limiter set to not allow any peaks to exist so the signal doesn't clip and they can run it as loud as possible. To hear this in the extreme go have a listen to saint anger by metallica. When everything else drops out the snare jumps up and becomes earsplitting because the whole mix has been compressed so much it's ridiculous.

Again, that's a different kind of compression, and St. Anger has an egregious amount of clipping in it, as you can see here.

 

[Bass-ball]

That wasn't too bad, but "Vapor Trails" was way over compressed, and they remixed it and toned it down on the compression, even though I still think it's a little bit too much. Rush typically had good dynamics on their Terry Brown recordings.

That's two different types of compression. What Tony and Geddy did to their bass signals was an effect in their individual stems. What the audio engineer did to "Vapor Trails" was expand the waveforms of the final mix until they're clipped. You can have a compressed bass signal on an album that is mastered perfectly and is wide open with plenty of dynamic range. Peter Gabriel's "So" is a perfect example. The album, in its earliest pressings, has no clipping, despite Tony compressing the hell out of his signal for "Sledgehammer" and other tracks.

 

[pbass2]

That's two different types of compression. What Tony and Geddy did to their bass signals was an effect in their individual stems. What the audio engineer did to "Vapor Trails" was expand the waveforms of the final mix until they're clipped. You can have a compressed bass signal on an album that is mastered perfectly and is wide open with plenty of dynamic range. Peter Gabriel's "So" is a perfect example. The album, in its earliest pressings, has no clipping, despite Tony compressing the hell out of his signal for "Sledgehammer" and other tracks.

Yes this is all typically happening in the final mastering phase, not at the final mix - no pro mix engineer worth their salt is gonna make a final mix that's clipping all over the place, and mastering engineers require that the final mix sent to them has headroom for them to work with, often around -6db for the max peak. Otherwise it really limits (no pun...) what they can do in the mastering process. So, if i remember correctly with that Rush album, they simply remastered it, they didn't go back and create a new final mix--there'd be no reason, unless the mix was somehow poorly printed and clipping, I mean like, amateur level stuff.

 

[Bass-ball]

Yes this is all typically happening in the final mastering phase, not at the final mix - no pro mix engineer worth their salt is gonna make a final mix that's clipping all over the place, and mastering engineers require that the final mix sent to them has headroom for them to work with, often around -6db for the max peak. Otherwise it really limits (no pun...) what they can do in the mastering process. So, if i remember correctly with that Rush album, they simply remastered it, they didn't go back and create a new final mix--there'd be no reason, unless the mix was somehow poorly printed and clipping, I mean like, amateur level stuff.

After VT was re-released, the Rush forums were like "I can hear it a little bit better," but the audiophile people were livid, because of the very reason you pointed out. I realize how amateur it might be to create a "hot" mix, as you said, but I truly think the mix itself is botched, not just the final master. There is no other explanation for VT's sub-par quality when it was rereleased. Otherwise, the "remaster" would have given us something a bit more dynamic, but it didn't (well, it's marginally better, but it could have been so much more). They had a real opportunity to clean up and set the record straight re: the loudness wars, but they didn't. I don't care for that album myself, so no harm no foul. (My interest in them wanes after Signals).

 

[pbass2]

After VT was re-released, the Rush forums were like "I can hear it a little bit better," but the audiophile people were livid, because of the very reason you pointed out. I realize how amateur it might be to create a "hot" mix, as you said, but I truly think the mix itself is botched, not just the final master. There is no other explanation for VT's sub-par quality when it was rereleased. Otherwise, the "remaster" would have given us something a bit more dynamic, but it didn't (well, it's marginally better, but it could have been so much more). They had a real opportunity to clean up and set the record straight re: the loudness wars, but they didn't. I don't care for that album myself, so no harm no foul. (My interest in them wanes after Signals).

Crazy--admittedly I'm not familiar with the whole story on that one. I figured they just remastered it.
Well, when doing a final mix, one thing to strive for is to make a mix that sounds as close to how you'd want the final master to sound (so as not to find yourself "fixing it" in mastering), so heck, maybe the mix engineer was fully entrenched in the loudness wars on that one. Just surprising with something at the level!

 

[Isaac_James]

(My interest in them wanes after Signals).

I mostly agree, and I actually wrote them off for a long time after buying one of their albums and not finding it my cup of tea (I think it was Roll The Bones, which was contemporary at the time I got it).

I did really like Clockwork Angels though. I think they went out on a relatively high note. It's no Moving Pictures but it's pretty good.

 

[Bass-ball]

Crazy--admittedly I'm not familiar with the whole story on that one. I figured they just remastered it.
Well, when doing a final mix, one thing to strive for is to make a mix that sounds as close to how you'd want the final master to sound (so as not to find yourself "fixing it" in mastering), so heck, maybe the mix engineer was fully entrenched in the loudness wars on that one. Just surprising with something at the level!

They tried to actually "UN-master" it, but that wouldn't sell to the public, since most people see "remastered" and think it's a reason to buy the album again, so they went with the common term "remastered." I think I said it in this thread earlier: the only "un-mastering" I've ever seen done was Steve Wilson going back and un-mastering his debut album, Insurgentes, in 2016 (the original had some clipping, the remaster doesn't; sounds way more dynamic, but now you have to use your volume knob with the new one lol). And when he released Grace for Drowning he posted online saying that he did "as little as possible in the mastering process," and holy cow, is that album dynamic. He wasn't joking, esp. the track "Raider II."

Did some poking around again, and I saw a couple guys online say they think VT's mixdown was bad from the get-go, even before any of the mastering was done. Something about "unintentional digital distortion" (?). Sounds like an excuse to me. Anyway, that would explain what you surmised perfectly.

I've seen conversations online with audio producers, and if speaking pseudonymously or anonymously, they'll say that they're pressured to make 'hot' masters with all the irritating brickwalling and clipping in them in order to please their bosses who want it to be "louder," even though they are keenly aware that they're making a lesser product. I think a lot of that has waned since now "loudness leveling" has been pushed to the client device/software (in quotes because I don't know the technical term), so even in Spotify I can see a selector for track to track leveling in settings. I keep it off, but that means once in a while I have to turn it up or down, which doesn't really bother me (the difference isn't that noticeable, tbh).

Anyway, signal compression on an individual stem is an effect, and does not necessarily mean the entire album itself is brickwalled/clipped, as we know from Peter Gabriel's "So" and others. That's how all this whole conversation started lol

 

[pbass2]

Anyway, signal compression on an individual stem is an effect, and does not necessarily mean the entire album itself is brickwalled/clipped, as we know from Peter Gabriel's "So" and others. That's how all this whole conversation started lol

I know, I kinda took off on the recording/mastering use of compression--shoulda moved it over to the recording forum. There's just so much confusion I see practically daily about compression on TB. There's some really good info from many folks, but an equal amount of bad info from folks who really don't understand how compression is typically used in recording music, but are the first to advise someone to slap a compressor stomp on their bass.
I always advise anyone who has the curiosity to go get their hands dirty in a DAW - play around with all the compressor models and do some tutorials---it's so much not just about bass. And try mixing some music. It's so affordable these days to start recording and producing yourself even just as an educational tool. Absolutely no downside to putting in that time.

 

[Chickenwheels]

Just learned this for a gig. The bass is super squeezed, almost as an effect.