Double Bass Odd exercise from HS teacher

[neilG]

I have a student who came to me and said his HS music director wants everyone to learn an exercise: melodic minor scales in two octaves, but you go up a half step each time you change from ascending to descending. He didn't give them sheet music to use so I made some. At first I thought "why?", but in teaching it to him realize it's kind of challenging. Anyway, here it is for y'all to use. Let me know if you find mistakes.

Dropbox - Minor Scale Workout.pdf - Simplify your life

 

[dkziemann]

Cool! The final note of each ascending scale becomes the leading tone of the descending scale.

 

[jheise]

I need a little clarification to make sure that I understand correctly:

Ascending -> melodic minor, descending -> natural minor/Aeolian? (It's notated that way if I see correctly, just to make sure)

Cool! The final note of each ascending scale becomes the leading tone of the descending scale.

Can you please elaborate? ;-) Isn't the upward leading tone (maj7) to finish the MM scale becoming the leading tone (b7) for the descending scale? What am I missing? Or is this what you mean? (by final note you mean the 7, not the root?)

 

[Wasnex]

I need a little clarification to make sure that I understand correctly:

Ascending -> melodic minor, descending -> natural minor/Aeolian? (It's notated that way if I see correctly, just to make sure)



Can you please elaborate? ;-) Isn't the upward leading tone (maj7) to finish the MM scale becoming the leading tone (b7) for the descending scale? What am I missing? Or is this what you mean? (by final note you mean the 7, not the root?)

After you play the ascending melodic minor scale, you go up a half step and play a descending natural minor scale. So the final note of the ascending melodic minor scale is the leading tone for the next key.

 

[jheise]

After you play the ascending melodic minor scale, you go up a half step and play a descending natural minor scale.

Ok. I just wanted to make sure. Coming more from a more Jazz-background, Melodic Minor is the same scale up/down. And "classical musician's minor-practice" is MM up, Aeolian down. NeilG's post "mixed" it (for me). (The PDF is ok.)

So the final note of the ascending melodic minor scale is the leading tone for the next key.

Maybe I'm dense (or just struggling with nomenclatura or that English is not my first language): which one is the "final note" (going from G-MM to Ab-Min) you talk about - the G or the F# of G-MM?
Again, just for clarification: the "leading tone for the next key" - are you still thinking moving upwards from G to Ab, that way calling it the leading tone? Because in my mind, I emphasize the b7/b6 going downward from Ab to "lead" into Aeolian.

 

[Wasnex]

Ok. I just wanted to make sure. Coming more from a more Jazz-background, Melodic Minor is the same scale up/down. And "classical musician's minor-practice" is MM up, Aeolian down. NeilG's post "mixed" it (for me). (The PDF is ok.)

Yes I understand what you mean, and to clarify the exercise uses the classical melodic form (MM ascending, Aeolian descending)

If the 6th and 7th are Major intervals in both the ascending and descending form, I would call it the Jazz Minor scale to avoid confusion. But of course not everyone knows what Jazz Minor means, so I would probably have to explain .

Maybe I'm dense (or just struggling with nomenclatura or that English is not my first language): which one is the "final note" (going from G-MM to Ab-Min) you talk about - the G or the F# of G-MM?
Again, just for clarification: the "leading tone for the next key" - are you still thinking moving upwards from G to Ab, that way calling it the leading tone? Because in my mind, I emphasize the b7/b6 going downward from Ab to "lead" into Aeolian.

It's not a matter of language, it's matter of context and semantics. English speakers also quibble over whether the 7th or the tonic is the last note of the scale.

This is my preferred usage in this specific context. The scale is played tonic to tonic (G to G). So G is the last note of the ascending G Melodic Minor scale, as played. You would not normally stop on the 7th, you would play through to the tonic.

However, if you asked me a theoretical question, "What is the last note of the ascending G Melodic Minor form?" I would say F#. When you are talking about the notes, you don't have a need to restate the tonic.

Hopefully you understand what I mean, even if you don't agree.

Hopefully this will make everything clear: After you play the Melodic ascending form, you go up a half staff and play the descending (classical) melodic minor form. In other words you play the Aeolian or natural minor form.

Is G not the leading tone in Ab Melodic Minor? Here is what is written in the exercise: G->Ab Gb Fb Eb Db Cb Bb Ab, etc. But remember we are using the classical form of the Melodic scale.

Ab then becomes the (enharmonic) leading tone for the next ascending melodic scale: Ab->A B C D E F# G# A

Your English is fabulous by the way, although I am not surprised since you are in Germany . Tschüss.

 

[dkziemann]

Yes I understand what you mean, and to clarify the exercise uses the classical melodic form (MM ascending, Aeolian descending)

If the 6th and 7th are Major intervals in both the ascending and descending form, I would call it the Jazz Minor scale to avoid confusion. But of course not everyone knows what Jazz Minor means, so I would probably have to explain .



It's not a matter of language, it's matter of context and semantics. English speakers also quibble over whether the 7th or the tonic is the last note of the scale.

This is my preferred usage in this specific context. The scale is played tonic to tonic (G to G). So G is the last note of the ascending G Melodic Minor scale, as played. You would not normally stop on the 7th, you would play through to the tonic.

However, if you asked me a theoretical question, "What is the last note of the ascending G Melodic Minor form?" I would say F#. When you are talking about the notes, you don't have a need to restate the tonic.

Hopefully you understand what I mean, even if you don't agree.

Hopefully this will make everything clear: After you play the Melodic ascending form, you go up a half staff and play the descending (classical) melodic minor form. In other words you play the Aeolian or natural minor form.

Is G not the leading tone in Ab Melodic Minor? Here is what is written in the exercise: G->Ab Gb Fb Eb Db Cb Bb Ab, etc. But remember we are using the classical form of the Melodic scale.

Ab then becomes the (enharmonic) leading tone for the next ascending melodic scale: Ab->A B C D E F# G# A

Your English is fabulous by the way, although I am not surprised since you are in Germany . Tschüss.

Yes to everything, thank you for a thorough answer

 

[jheise]

...

Thank you for everything you wrote. Especially in regard to the "final" note in a scale. So, to split more hair:

Cool! The final note of each ascending scale becomes the leading tone of the descending scale.

The G from Ab-MM (as the leading tone and also the "final" note in the scale going up) becomes the leading tone (G as b7 in A natural minor) going down the scale?
Is that what you meant @dkziemann?

Edit: because for me, leading tone implies the direction of movement. So even if I play a Ab as my last note, I don't consider it as a leading tone, if I switch tonality and play A natural minor from top to bottom. I already resolved from G to Ab.

 

[jheise]

So, I got home and played the exercise a few times. Still not getting it.

Is G not the leading tone in Ab Melodic Minor? Here is what is written in the exercise: G->Ab Gb Fb Eb Db Cb Bb Ab, etc. But remember we are using the classical form of the Melodic scale.

Technically, yes. But I'm not hearing the "leading quality" (finishing G-MM ... E -> F# -> G -> Ab (in Ab-MM) -> Gb/F# -> Fb/E -> Eb) between G and Ab.

Ab then becomes the (enharmonic) leading tone for the next ascending melodic scale: Ab->A B C D E F# G# A

And here, I can hear something (but maybe I don't hear a "leading" tone but just the altered scale, still undecided)

Cool! The final note of each ascending scale becomes the leading tone of the descending scale.

So I still not hear this. Somebody has an explanation? I'm just curious on what I'm missing out on.

 

[neilG]

Now that you've all figured it out, I realize I should do a version that starts on the open E string. This is meant to be played in unison in a string class and the violins start on their open G.

 

[dkziemann]

Thank you for everything you wrote. Especially in regard to the "final" note in a scale. So, to split more hair:



The G from Ab-MM (as the leading tone and also the "final" note in the scale going up) becomes the leading tone (G as b7 in A natural minor) going down the scale?
Is that what you meant @dkziemann?

Edit: because for me, leading tone implies the direction of movement. So even if I play a Ab as my last note, I don't consider it as a leading tone, if I switch tonality and play A natural minor from top to bottom. I already resolved from G to Ab.

To my ear, the only logical explanation for every descending scale beginning a half-step higher is because of the resting tonic acting as a leading tone to the next key. I guess it's all perspective on how you hear it. If I play a G melodic minor scale ascending and rest on G, pause for a moment, and then begin descending Ab natural minor, my brain interprets the G as the leading tone to Ab—in the context of this exercise. Of course, out of context, it does not make any sense... but to me, that's the point of this exercise!

 

[dkziemann]

And that is to say, the bottom note of the ascended scale (let's say Ab minor moving to A melodic minor) also acts as a "leading tone" to the new key. Again, if you're thinking about Ab in the context of Ab, then it's not a leading tone. But because this progression is moving constantly, I hear the last note of each scale functioning as the leading tone moving into the new key.

 

[Wasnex]

Now that you've all figured it out, I realize I should do a version that starts on the open E string. This is meant to be played in unison in a string class and the violins start on their open G.

Played in unison as a class or as a section?

 

[Wasnex]

So, I got home and played the exercise a few times. Still not getting it.


Technically, yes. But I'm not hearing the "leading quality" (finishing G-MM ... E -> F# -> G -> Ab (in Ab-MM) -> Gb/F# -> Fb/E -> Eb) between G and Ab.


And here, I can hear something (but maybe I don't hear a "leading" tone but just the altered scale, still undecided)


So I still not hear this. Somebody has an explanation? I'm just curious on what I'm missing out on.

I don't think your missing anything. If you consider the harmonization of the scale and how the pitch would be tempered, I don't think it would present as a leading tone either. I took it more as a casual observation than a functional analysis. Basically it was observed that G is the leading tone of Ab, but IMHO that does not mean it functions as the leading tone. More splitting of hairs . Sorry for the confusion .

 

[neilG]

Played in unison as a class or as a section?

I think the whole class plays it in unison: violins, violas, cellos and basses. Or at least they try.

 

[neilG]

Sometimes scales are just scales.

 

[Wasnex]

I think the whole class plays it in unison: violins, violas, cellos and basses. Or at least they try.

If your students can play the exercise as written I am quite impressed .

 

[bengreen]

Am I the only one who doesn't see any point to this?

 

[Wasnex]

Am I the only one who doesn't see any point to this?

It is pretty common to run scales is school music programs. Most of the time I think it's done as a warm up. However, I remember sometimes in the big band class I took that when intonation was really bad, we would stop, tune, and play a few unison scales, and it seemed to help.

 

[bengreen]

It is pretty common to run scales is school music programs. Most of the time I think it's done as a warm up. However, I remember sometimes in the big band class I took that when intonation was really bad, we would stop, tune, and play a few unison scales, and it seemed to help.

No argument there. It's just that the arbitrary complexity of this thing and trying to put it together on the fly would distract me big time from trying to fix my pitch. But then most kids today are a lot better at multitasking than I am.