Odd Expressions

[neurotictim]

@two fingers, I very nearly wrote exactly the same thing you just did. I quoted all the same posts with the intent of saying very much the same thing, so when I get to the current end of the thread and see your post, I'm all like, "dang."

"It is what it is" works exactly the same to me as "play the hand you're given" or similar. You have to deal with reality as it is, not as you wish it was. It *can* be used to dismiss valid complaints, but generally speaking for me, it's more acknowledgment that I need to focus on what IS, not what I think SHOULD be, to get my butt in gear.

I'll admit that I learned in the last few months that two phrases I have used for the better part of 40 years are offensive, so I've diligently tried to rid myself of them. I'm sharing them here in case other people are unaware:

"Spic and Span" when saying something was very clean, refers to the pejorative stereotype of Hispanic/Spanish women as cleaning ladies, while "wait a cotton-pickin minute," a phrase originating in Carolina cotton plantations that I picked up decades ago from my paternal grandpa are no longer socially acceptable (if they ever were). I genuinely did not know that, and have stopped using both after some consideration and genuflection. I can use other phrases to communicate the same idea, it costs me nothing to be more aware.

On a lighter note, I like to say, "Six of one, half dozen of the other" when I don't care about something either way. Burger King or McDonald's, Coltrane or Davis, etc.

 

[Guild B301]

@two fingers, I very nearly wrote exactly the same thing you just did. I quoted all the same posts with the intent of saying very much the same thing, so when I get to the current end of the thread and see your post, I'm all like, "dang."

"It is what it is" works exactly the same to me as "play the hand you're given" or similar. You have to deal with reality as it is, not as you wish it was. It *can* be used to dismiss valid complaints, but generally speaking for me, it's more acknowledgment that I need to focus on what IS, not what I think SHOULD be, to get my butt in gear.

I'll admit that I learned in the last few months that two phrases I have used for the better part of 40 years are offensive, so I've diligently tried to rid myself of them. I'm sharing them here in case other people are unaware:

"Spic and Span" when saying something was very clean, refers to the pejorative stereotype of Hispanic/Spanish women as cleaning ladies, while "wait a cotton-pickin minute," a phrase originating in Carolina cotton plantations that I picked up decades ago from my paternal grandpa are no longer socially acceptable (if they ever were). I genuinely did not know that, and have stopped using both after some consideration and genuflection. I can use other phrases to communicate the same idea, it costs me nothing to be more aware.

On a lighter note, I like to say, "Six of one, half dozen of the other" when I don't care about something either way. Burger King or McDonald's, Coltrane or Davis, etc.

I think some of these sayings people want to attach a bad connotation to, is revisionist thinking. Both “Spin & Span” which goes back much further than stereotypes you are mentioning, and “Just a Cotton Pickin’ Minute” do not apply to any one race or place. My white family, literally were cotton pickers in the field, up through the WW2. So, I will continue to use those expressions.
And the idea that the word “plantation” has a bad connotation (as some people have been suggesting lately) is also ridiculous. A plantation is a farm where local resident workers tend the crops, instead of migrant, seasonal workers.

I don’t think it’s right to stop using perfectly good expressions because some people are misinformed, or want to purposely change their meanings.

Here’s an OLD one I still use:

“I’m all stove up, today”
meaning
“My joints are all stiff & sore, today”

it goes back to Middle - English of the 1100’s

 

[Guild B301]

A couple of them at least I wouldn't have guessed because those are not the origins! In particular:

Go the whole nine yards
Meaning: To try your best at something

Origin: During World War II, the fighter pilots were equipped with nine yards of ammunition. When they ran out, it meant that they had tried their best at fighting off the target with the entirety of their ammunition.

Since ammunition wasn't supplied in nine-yard lengths, it's unlikely. In some WW2 fighters, such as the P-51, the guns had different amounts of ammunition for the inner pair. We can be pretty sure it's not a Russian or German expression, at least.

P-40E - 281 rounds per gun, P-51D - 270 and 400, P-47 - 350, F4U - 391, B-17 - 400 to 500. Or if it was a Lancaster - 1000 to 2500.

Nine yards is apparently 313 rounds of 50 calibre ammunition which matches absolutely no WW2 US aircraft! If it was 'the whole ten yards' it would at least match the P-47...

There is a much older meaning of “Whole Nine Yards”. (I suppose it was later applied to the guns of WW2, because it fit so well).
It was applied to full rigged, sailing ‘tall ships’ of old. When you opened the big sails completely, you were using the ‘whole nine yards’ of the sail cloth.
So, it goes back, at least to the 1600’s.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

There is a much older meaning of “Whole Nine Yards”. (I suppose it was later applied to the guns of WW2, because it fit so well).
It was applied to full rigged, sailing ‘tall ships’ of old. When you opened the big sails completely, you were using the ‘whole nine yards’ of the sail cloth.
So, it goes back, at least to the 1600’s.

It first appears in the early 20th century with its present meaning so 1600s seems unlikely.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

"As useful as knitting tofu"

 

[-Asdfgh-]

"Take the biscuit."

Someone's got to have the biscuit. What's so special about that biscuit?

It's just a dunkable cake alternative.

 

[Guild B301]

It first appears in the early 20th century with its present meaning so 1600s seems unlikely.

Exactly, it was first used in the 20th century with its present meaning.
But, it first appeared in the 17th century with its previous meaning. (tall ships).
I didn’t say it was about machine guns of the 1600’s. LOL

 

[neurotictim]

I think some of these sayings people want to attach a bad connotation to, is revisionist thinking. Both “Spin & Span” which goes back much further than stereotypes you are mentioning, and “Just a Cotton Pickin’ Minute” do not apply to any one race or place.

I don’t think it’s right to stop using perfectly good expressions because some people are misinformed, or want to purposely change their meanings.

I looked up both phrases based on your response, and I'm honestly surprised to find the origin of :spicK and span" to go back so far. I didn't really question the person who told me it was a pejorative, though I suspect they believed their own explanation, whether it was something they were told or just assumed. So yes, I could continue saying it, safe now knowing that they're wrong about the origin or the phrase.

On the other hand, virtually every link I came across on Google for "cotton picking minute" makes a point of saying it is (or may be) considered offensive due to the associative factor of slaves forced to pick cotton, though. Arguably, one can't discuss plantations without acknowledgment of the impact slavery had on them throughout the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, so that doesn't really surprise me there.

In either case, regardless of the origin of the word or phrase, if it's genuinely bothersome to someone I will stop using it. Once again, it's not a matter of whether I'm technically correct in using it, it's a matter of respecting the fact that someone finds it genuinely offensive. I do wonder how many people know the correct origin of a phrase and use them with original meaning in mind, given how much and quickly language evolves.

For example, "queer as a three dollar bill" (which is a phrase I have used in the past, before understanding how offensive it was) didn't initially refer to homosexuality, but rather used the definition of "queer" as meaning "counterfeit." However, I personally know a number of people that find that phrase wildly offensive today. I *could* correct their understanding of the origin and meaning of the phrase, but that would be missing the point entirely and in my opinion be a matter of technical pedantry. Instead, I choose to not use it. Again, I can use other language to convey the same ideas without offense.

People can be arbitrary, in this no less than any other topic. And there will be people who will push the "I find this word or phrase offensive" narrative to extremes, without a doubt. But, as the saying goes, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

 

[FilterFunk]

I always took it as a positive. I read into it that the sooner you deal with the reality of the situation (rather than complaining about it) the sooner you can get about dealing with that reality. This, of course, doesn't apply in situations that are blatantly unjust.

Let's say I get in the car to go to work and I'm running late AND need to stop for gas. I can a) complain about it and drive like a maniac trying to make up late and gas pump time or b) realize that "it is what it is" and that you're going to be a few minutes late. Call work. Get gas. Go on with your day.

^This is precisely how I see it. I couldn't have said it better.

 

[Guild B301]

I looked up both phrases based on your response, and I'm honestly surprised to find the origin of :spicK and span" to go back so far. I didn't really question the person who told me it was a pejorative, though I suspect they believed their own explanation, whether it was something they were told or just assumed. So yes, I could continue saying it, safe now knowing that they're wrong about the origin or the phrase.

On the other hand, virtually every link I came across on Google for "cotton picking minute" makes a point of saying it is (or may be) considered offensive due to the associative factor of slaves forced to pick cotton, though. Arguably, one can't discuss plantations without acknowledgment of the impact slavery had on them throughout the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, so that doesn't really surprise me there.

In either case, regardless of the origin of the word or phrase, if it's genuinely bothersome to someone I will stop using it. Once again, it's not a matter of whether I'm technically correct in using it, it's a matter of respecting the fact that someone finds it genuinely offensive. I do wonder how many people know the correct origin of a phrase and use them with original meaning in mind, given how much and quickly language evolves.

For example, "queer as a three dollar bill" (which is a phrase I have used in the past, before understanding how offensive it was) didn't initially refer to homosexuality, but rather used the definition of "queer" as meaning "counterfeit." However, I personally know a number of people that find that phrase wildly offensive today. I *could* correct their understanding of the origin and meaning of the phrase, but that would be missing the point entirely and in my opinion be a matter of technical pedantry. Instead, I choose to not use it. Again, I can use other language to convey the same ideas without offense.

People can be arbitrary, in this no less than any other topic. And there will be people who will push the "I find this word or phrase offensive" narrative to extremes, without a doubt. But, as the saying goes, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Yeah, I’m an amateur historian, I suppose. I always try to explain original meanings to people. Some people will only accept their revisionist meanings, because it suits their narrative. Ya can’t educate people who don’t want to hear the truth.
But, I won’t let anybody tell me ‘cotton picking’ is a derogatory term - when my Grandparents and Great-Grandparents were all picking cotton for a living, nearly a hundred years after slavery ended in the US. There are just so many old sayings people don’t understand, so they try to attach some modern day meaning to it.
Queer as a 3 dollar bill - STILL means Counterfeit. It’s all about intent.

 

[FilterFunk]

"Quiet as a gnat walkin' on cotton."

 

[neurotictim]

For the record, I'm not out here telling anyone what they should or shouldn't say (or judging them for it). I'm only speaking for myself.

Or, in TB parlance, "YMMV."

 

[Guild B301]

For the record, I'm not out here telling anyone what they should or shouldn't say (or judging them for it). I'm only speaking for myself.

Or, in TB parlance, "YMMV."

Yeah, I didn’t mean you were trying to tell me what words to use. I saw that you already understand how these old sayings get misconstrued. I just meant people in general.
That’s why these things a are so hard to explain in ‘text’. You actually need ‘context’.

 

[Yonni]

In the UK we used to say “bent as a nine Bob note” to mean someone dodgy or linked to crime. More recently (possibly since 70s) people have taken it to mean homosexual. Some websites such as Urban Dictionary now quote that as its definition but that’s not it’s original use. Shame, because I used to like it to describe someone we didn’t trust. I wouldn’t use it now so as not to cause offence. I might not intend to offend but if that is how it is taken, I can’t tell someone whether they’re offended or not.

 

[Guild B301]

“Hurry up, we’re burning daylight”

Meaning, you are wasting time, when you should be working.
It was from a time when burning oil in lamps, was used for light.

 

[Guild B301]

“Bright Eyed and Bushy Tailed”

It means to be wide awake and alert and happy. Like wildlife and farm animals are when they first wake up
in the morning.

 

[FilterFunk]

"I'll be there with bells on."

 

[S-Bigbottom]

"I'll be there with bells on."

YAAAY!

Santa is coming.

I will be there and instead of just being there on the side hardly noticed, I will be helping out and ready for anything.
The bells imply you will be noticed.

 

[fhm555]

I've never had a cake and not eaten it.

-Mike

I made a bunch of different flavored pound cakes for a big family reunion. My folks were hosting so while they did the fun stuff i made sure there was food from six in the morning until everyone gave out for the night, for three days. I spent a lot of time tending a smoker and riding a grill in addition to keeping the tables stocked with chow and hardware. The cakes went quick so i never got any.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I always took it as a positive. I read into it that the sooner you deal with the reality of the situation (rather than complaining about it) the sooner you can get about dealing with that reality. This, of course, doesn't apply in situations that are blatantly unjust.

Let's say I get in the car to go to work and I'm running late AND need to stop for gas. I can a) complain about it and drive like a maniac trying to make up late and gas pump time or b) realize that "it is what it is" and that you're going to be a few minutes late. Call work. Get gas. Go on with your day.

It's a bit different when you are saying it to yourself. Then you are letting yourself off the hook for your negative outcome, (being tardy) in a positive fashion ( talking yourself into not driving like an idiot ).

The negative outcome is always there and the message is always making the best of it whether it's consolation or leadership or self consolation.